Spawncamping: The final word

[Stormcaller3801]

Here's one that I'm on the fence about, mostly because I can see both sides of it. There's a map in the 4th round of the July test, I expect there's a decent chance a later version will be used as right now the only real issue is that it's confusing. Right outside one spawn entrance is a small shed- the same you can find near A in Gravelpit. Nothing inside it, but it's pretty much made for camping the spawn. I found this out when I ran through the gate and was immediately burned to a cinder by the Pyro hiding inside- who immediately ran away from the spawn and back to his own lines.

So I'm not sure whether that counts. On the one hand, he got a kill and ran off. I didn't see him back there again. But he was certainly sitting in there waiting for people to come out of the spawn to kill. Which some little part of my mind keeps flagging as a bad thing to do.

We also later switched sides and I got sniped from the spawn without being able to shoot the Sniper. Because of the team-filtered gates. Couldn't shoot him until he stepped forward and opened the gate, at which point he killed me.

Related note, sort of, are those maps that for whatever reason allow you to set up teleporter entrances inside the spawn area. Not, you know, the room itself, but adjoining areas that are sealed by gates and barriers. That just seems horribly unfair to opposing teams. In as much as I can sympathize with the desire to not have a teleporter destroyed (because $deity knows every single friggin time I try to set one up I inevitably get every other building sapped as soon as I so much as move out of Wrench range), it's meant to get blown up by good players. That's just part of the game.

[Witchiebunny]

Let me see if I can make this as clear as possible:

DO NOT CAMP SPAWN. DO NOT STAY AT SPAWN AND KILL PEOPLE. DO NOT STICKY SPAWN. DO NOT SHOOT DIRECTLY INTO SPAWN. DO NOT SNIPE OUT OF SPAWN. DO NOT STAND AT SPAWN WITH THE EXPRESSED INTENT TO KILL PEOPLE. DO NOT STAND THERE AND KILL PEOPLE FOR MULTIPLE SPAWN WAVES. IN SHORT, DO NOT GO TO SPAWN OR BY SPAWN UNLESS NECESSARY AND IF YOU ARE CAUGHT STAYING THERE PAST THE INITIAL MAP SIEGE OR FOR MULTIPLE SPAWN WAVES EXPECT DISCIPLINARY ACTION. THERE IS NO EXCUSE IN THE WORLD THAT WILL EVER GET ME TO ALLOW SPAWN CAMPING SO QUIT IT.

[NikkyVix]

And to think..

Had it been me that said that, I would've used the next size font up. Be glad there's no flashing text modifier for the forum, too. :3

Don't forget that there are other alternatives out there to us if you find you simply cannot relate to or abide by such a simple rule. Use your reasoning as thinking, decision-making human beings instead of depending on an 11-page sub-articled explanation of dos and dont's.

[Hissho]

[Witchiebunny]

It's NOT okay to camp Spawn to kill players, it is okay to rush past and destroy buildings/teleporters/anyone who happens to be wandering off.

Keep in mind the CAMP portion of the word spawncamp, and setting stickies down outside of spawn, regardless of how obvious they are, is NOT allowed.

EDIT: Thread unlocked as I've calmed down but seriously, this is NOT a hard concept.

[Hissho]

[Witchiebunny]

We're working to get all the admins/mods on the same page with the rules, don't you worry about that.

If they're persuing an objective next to spawn, then players are encouraged to fire at spawn ONLY if players are firing back from there and to STOP as soon as all of those firing from within spawn are gone. In other words, defend yourself, but don't push it any further than that.

[Hissho]

OK, so as a lone demoman capping a point directly next to a spawn, I'm reduced to waiting for someone to come out, waiting for them to shoot me, then firing my 4 pipe bombs before I die?

And, firing from inside spawn? Isn't that also spawn camping according to the rules?

Also, note your "players are ENCOURAGED to" wording. That leads me to believe that what I'm talking about isn't a bannable offense, but rather frowned upon, like nearly spawn camping spies.

I believe my argument is still legitimate that, for a demoman to defend himself while capping a final point, stickies near the enemy's spawn door are absolutely REQUIRED.

And to top it all off, you keep trying to make it sound as "simple" as "don't spawn camp", yet you're introducing all of these quirky "correct ways to sort of spawn camp", like this procedure of killing people that are already shooting at you from spawn idea.

[NikkyVix]

I swear, there's people who won't take a hint and learn to let their self-righteous crusades go when they're simply beating a broken drum.

This is leaping far past the point of reasoned argument and hovering about the Cove of Relentless Complaining.

Thread once again locked. Further railing on the matter is closed.

[Witchiebunny]

To use your example:

A demo shooting at you from spawn door E as you're capping.

Kill the demoman if he's firing from inside spawn or just outside of spawn.

Do NOT sticky the area after he's dead waiting for someone else to come out.

Defending yourself is NOT spawncamping. And someone firing from inside spawn are also violating the spawncamping rule.

Your argument is not correct, and I'm getting very tired of you trying to find loopholes to the rule. Again, this isn't hard and if you try again to find a loophole to this rule, I'll lock the thread and declare going by spawn AT ALL unless the map forces it (like turbine, Steel, etc) is an instant bannable offense.

I'm getting really sick of trying to counter EVERY SINGLE INSTANCE you think you can come up with. Stop trying to find loopholes so you can act like a jackass, act like a decent player and human being or don't play on our fucking servers.

EDIT: Ninja'd by a Nightfox.