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Postby Witchiebunny » Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:17 pm

I'm having some trouble comming up with a relevant topic for this upcomming weekend's lessons. So you guys tell me what you want to learn, wouldja?
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Postby Mirri » Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:35 pm

I know we've done Heavy + Medic training, but I think some general "working with a medic" training might be in order. I've been playing medic a lot more recently. I usually play it when I'm sucking at killing people. I'm a damn good medic, and sometimes I just have to rage at people who do stupid stuff while you're trying to be a good medic. Things like:

* Taking medpacks when your medic is hurt, while he's healing you. We will continue healing you. Healing you while you're hurt gives us more ubercharge, too.
* Running into a group of 8 enemies and expecting the medic to stay with you without an uber charge.
* Not saying anything when you decide to dart out into oncoming enemy fire that the medic might not know about. At least use your medic call - most medics will know that it's a sign to pop their ubercharge.
* Don't break line of sight with your medic. Don't take sharp 90-degree turns around corners. Heavies don't really have this problem since medics are so much faster than they are.
* Protect your medic. You have a status screen on your screen when you're being healed. If you see the medic's life going down quickly, it would be in your best interest to look behind you and kill whatever is hurting your medic.
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Postby Atchhoat » Tue Sep 02, 2008 4:20 pm

Did we? I was around, I musta missed it. too bad :/
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Postby Ferto12 » Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:56 pm

Mirri wrote:I know we've done Heavy + Medic training, but I think some general "working with a medic" training might be in order. I've been playing medic a lot more recently. I usually play it when I'm sucking at killing people. I'm a damn good medic, and sometimes I just have to rage at people who do stupid stuff while you're trying to be a good medic. Things like:

* Taking medpacks when your medic is hurt, while he's healing you. We will continue healing you. Healing you while you're hurt gives us more ubercharge, too.
* Running into a group of 8 enemies and expecting the medic to stay with you without an uber charge.
* Not saying anything when you decide to dart out into oncoming enemy fire that the medic might not know about. At least use your medic call - most medics will know that it's a sign to pop their ubercharge.
* Don't break line of sight with your medic. Don't take sharp 90-degree turns around corners. Heavies don't really have this problem since medics are so much faster than they are.
* Protect your medic. You have a status screen on your screen when you're being healed. If you see the medic's life going down quickly, it would be in your best interest to look behind you and kill whatever is hurting your medic.


I've been playing as a medic for a while too, and I've come to learn that you have only two duties as a medic:
1. Heal people.
2. Attack spies that are attacking your patient.

Let me put it this way, when you're the patient, you're BIGGEST focus when attacking is your targets, not protecting your medic. You must aim, fire, and use all of your acquired skills to dispatch your foes.

When you're the medic, all you have to do is heal your patient and watch for rear spies. Usually, all this entails is looking forward, towards your patient to watch for oncoming rockets or demo grenades and such, while occasionally flicking backwards to look for suspicious people.

To address individual points:
1. Agree. This needs to be taught.
2. Disagree, this needs to be learned through experience. It is your choice as a medic whether or not to follow the person, this is better taught by experience to medics to know when they should and should not follow their patient into the fray.
3. On the fence about this one. On one hand, it's usually up to the medic to know when to pop the charge (typically looking at just the change in health of the patient is a good indicator), though some cue by the patient helps if he sees something you don't. I have also never come across a patient who used the medic call to tell me "Active Charge!" In my opinion, this needs to be bound to a hotkey. Kritzeigs are an entirely different matter, it's more up to the intuition of the medic.
4. Disagree, as a medic you can keep up with any class pretty easily, other than scout of course.
5. Disagree, as a medic I have learned that I need to watch my own ass, as my patient has enough to worry about killing stuff. After a while, it becomes second nature to abandon your patient if you feel he's going into a useless suicidal encounter. Furthermore, usually by the time you see the medic's health going down and turn around, he's dead or so close to death you can't stop it. Only having 125 health does that.
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Postby Mirri » Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:21 pm

Ferto12 wrote:
Mirri wrote:I know we've done Heavy + Medic training, but I think some general "working with a medic" training might be in order. I've been playing medic a lot more recently. I usually play it when I'm sucking at killing people. I'm a damn good medic, and sometimes I just have to rage at people who do stupid stuff while you're trying to be a good medic. Things like:

* Taking medpacks when your medic is hurt, while he's healing you. We will continue healing you. Healing you while you're hurt gives us more ubercharge, too.
* Running into a group of 8 enemies and expecting the medic to stay with you without an uber charge.
* Not saying anything when you decide to dart out into oncoming enemy fire that the medic might not know about. At least use your medic call - most medics will know that it's a sign to pop their ubercharge.
* Don't break line of sight with your medic. Don't take sharp 90-degree turns around corners. Heavies don't really have this problem since medics are so much faster than they are.
* Protect your medic. You have a status screen on your screen when you're being healed. If you see the medic's life going down quickly, it would be in your best interest to look behind you and kill whatever is hurting your medic.


I've been playing as a medic for a while too, and I've come to learn that you have only two duties as a medic:
1. Heal people.
2. Attack spies that are attacking your patient.

Let me put it this way, when you're the patient, you're BIGGEST focus when attacking is your targets, not protecting your medic. You must aim, fire, and use all of your acquired skills to dispatch your foes.

When you're the medic, all you have to do is heal your patient and watch for rear spies. Usually, all this entails is looking forward, towards your patient to watch for oncoming rockets or demo grenades and such, while occasionally flicking backwards to look for suspicious people.

To address individual points:
1. Agree. This needs to be taught.
2. Disagree, this needs to be learned through experience. It is your choice as a medic whether or not to follow the person, this is better taught by experience to medics to know when they should and should not follow their patient into the fray.
3. On the fence about this one. On one hand, it's usually up to the medic to know when to pop the charge (typically looking at just the change in health of the patient is a good indicator), though some cue by the patient helps if he sees something you don't. I have also never come across a patient who used the medic call to tell me "Active Charge!" In my opinion, this needs to be bound to a hotkey. Kritzeigs are an entirely different matter, it's more up to the intuition of the medic.
4. Disagree, as a medic you can keep up with any class pretty easily, other than scout of course.
5. Disagree, as a medic I have learned that I need to watch my own ass, as my patient has enough to worry about killing stuff. After a while, it becomes second nature to abandon your patient if you feel he's going into a useless suicidal encounter. Furthermore, usually by the time you see the medic's health going down and turn around, he's dead or so close to death you can't stop it. Only having 125 health does that.


You have three primary duties as a medic:
1. Heal
2. Aquire uber and deploy at the right moment
3. Stay alive

The longer you are alive and on the front lines healing damage, the more deadly you are to your opponent. This means not running out around a corner with 8 people waiting for you and your patient, watching behind you as you run and alerting your patient of any oncoming threats from behind INCLUDING spies. I'm not saying that running out into a huge group of people and having your medic follow you is the fault of the patient. A good medic will NEVER follow somebody on a suicide run if they don't have an uber. Notice that I said people shouldn't EXPECT medics to follow them into a huge group of enemies. I've been shouted out more as a medic for not following people into suicide runs than anything else. Medics do NOT make you invincible without ubercharges, and even with them, only for 10 measly seconds. If you can't eliminate almost every threat in the room in those scant 10 seconds - your ass better bail out before the uber's gone, because I'll be right infront of you on the way out.
I also agree that a medic has to know when to throw up an uber - but I wasn't suggesting "How to play medic", I was suggesting "How to work WITH a medic". You can be the best medic in the world and if some moron you happen to be healing runs around a blind 90-degree corner into sentry range without saying a word it's usually too late to even activate before they're turned into chunky cherry jello.
Kritzkriegs can be pretty much thrown away at a moment's notice, I don't hesitate for a second to burn them now because it takes almost no time at all to build up another.
Just because a medic can keep up with another class doesn't mean they should make blind 90-degree turns around corners. Be considerate of your medic. If you know there's danger around that corner, it would be tantamount to your survival if you made sure you didn't break line of sight with your medic before stepping out. Step out around the corner before running down the hallway, assess the threat, or take a nice wide turn to make sure the medibeam stays on you at all times. Getting blown up by a crit rocket to the crotch because you turned a corner too fast is no fault to the medic.
As a medic you HAVE to watch your own ass, but that doesn't mean switching to your ubersaw when you see a pyro or soldier sneaking up behind you. It's much more efficient and safe to tell your partner, let them turn around and eliminate the encroaching threat because he kills you both because you ran off without your (normally) much deadlier patient to assist you. You have to work WITH your patient and vice-versa. If I run away from an oncoming threat, chances are they're going to follow ME, and kill ME, whereas if I alert my partner he can turn around and in most cases, eliminate the oncoming - hopefully singular - threat.
The medic may not have a lot of health, but they can take a shotgun at medium range or even a rocket or some splash damage, even a sticky or two before they die - the fact that they took damage should be a BIG indicator to be aware of your surroundings. Spin around and try to assess what caused the damage and try to save your medic. Remember - you have to work WITH your medic - it's not a one-way street.
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Postby Purplecat » Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:41 pm

Fun fact, I just realized that the medic is the only class with 150 HP. Four other classes have higher HP than him, while the rest four classes have all just 125 HP. (In other words, his HP level is... average. :P)

Also if you're a medic and have a healing buttbuddy, it's good idea to tell if you're going to pull back.

And while pairing up with someone is a good idea, don't forget to share the love with the medigun. Infact I had more success as a medic when I was jumping between people, rather than sticking to a single guy. It charges your ubercharge meter faster, and gives you points faster (You get a point for every 600th hp healed!).
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Postby NikkyVix » Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:56 pm

Interesting, but enough of the post hijacking. :)

What do you folks want to learn for this weekend's lessons?
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Postby EuroVen » Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:13 pm

I would like to suggest knowing how to flank well. Since I get the feeling that only a few people who flank on certain maps. For ex. Gravepit, Point A is captured, most people always start heading for the point taking the B entrace, would make it more effective if at least 3 or 4 people took A, to C, take out anyone who is heading to B and attack from a major blindspot, since the RED would most likely take it the BLU will always be heading through the B exit, and focusing on that, giving a major advantage for those coming from behind to knock down defenses, such as snipers and so forth on then.

So yeah, would like to suggest a good learning on flanking, knowing your way around the map to always get that blindspot. As what Daedulus said in his How to play the Scout video, while good aim is something that does help, approaching the enemy from his blind spot helps a lot more.
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Postby Werevixen » Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:06 am

Just as a wonder, could some sort of lesson group be created to have a Steam reminder present to pop up if "classes" are starting? I always miss these, if only to be there for the fun of things, or contribute with some of the few wisdoms I have.
~Retjzkai the intersex dracorat~
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Postby Angry_Squirrel » Sun Nov 09, 2008 10:25 pm

Werevixen wrote:I always miss these,


I don't think they even went through with the last planned one. Yeah, some were on, so they might've been doing it, but I didn't get an answer from doom (currently the only person in my friends list who would know... I need to add people >_>) so I didn't think they were doing it...
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