Spawn Layout, Ideas & Suggestions

We don't need no stinkin' blueprints.

Postby Pink_Luigi » Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:23 pm

If only we had.. You know.
Had this input WHILE WE WERE MAKING THE DAMN THING. >:(

I'm reading over now. Some good ideas, some good suggestions in change I agree with. Don't think much will change in-spawn. But we can still edit the buildings and world around it to make it look more acceptable. I'll get back on this after talking it out with the others.
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Postby Chittebengo » Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:25 pm

griffin wrote:A second bridge was added, good. The chains are an interesting new addition which I believe offers us a theme choice: "levitating due to magic/maglev forces" or "hangs on chains attached to anchor points on the ground".
The island is hovering above the abyss. By what forces? It's not clear. What's with the ring around the base? Magnetic levitation? Then what keeps the ring itself floating? Magic? That's mixing themes right there :P

Let's look at this from another perspective. What is the naturally occurring block for which "hovering in the air" is as valid placement for a map generator? Glow stone. And it's grouped in clusters; which take the shape of crystals. The island could float on either several glowstone crystal "engines" or one big glowstone crystal "bed" - with chains attaching it to the mainland being leashes that prevent it from drifting and eventually crashing into the side of the crate.
The ring around the base would then have to go, or be converted to an observation area/shrine-to-the-gods of the abyss.
That's the magic theme.

The mechanical theme would have the island hang on the chains anchored at the mainland, mandating that the island, like all heavy things, would sag below the level of the ground by 10-20 blocks due to it's weight and gravity. No more stiff bridges and chains.
The ring around the base, again, could either go or stay and if stay, become anchored to the island itself. Same purpose - observation area/shrine/suicide booth.
Mainland anchor points/guard houses would have to be moved deeper into the mainland and made bulkier; otherwise they wouldn't have been able to hold the weight. Some area beneath anchor points converted to cobble/whatever to serve as the 'concrete anchor base'.

You're into the realm of my things right now. We don't take kindly to strangers 'round these parts. *spits chew out the corner of his mouth*

Alright, let me address your concerns. There are glowstone pads on the bottom of the city with iron runes placed upon them. Above that there is a band of iron around the central "ball" that has a curly script I was told looks good. I hope it looks good, I'm the one that did it.

We wanted to do sagging chains, but Pink found this is fairly complicated to do with blocks to make it look anywhere near decent. They have to go vertical or horizontal until someone proposes a new design for them. Personally, I like them as they are as they also give the sensation of holding the bridges up.

The ring around the belly was my idea, Pink installed it, Mawr helped with the tedious things, we all critiqued it down to what it is now. Yes, it floats and surrounds the base. No, in the grand scheme it doesn't really serve a purpose. We don't have an established lore for the city, people are allowed to think what they want. It is largely inaccessible without building down to it, flying, or riding water and I wouldn't encourage anyone to really go there due to the risk involved unless they remove any unsightly scaffolding them make in the process.

griffin wrote:Next thing is the design of the island itself.

I strongly believe the structures build there should first and foremost be geared towards utility first, aesthetics second. That means No grinders save for the pork chop, and only because food is a necessary requirement. Grinders themselves better be moved to a separate area and made to accommodate both a larger demand and variety, as well as concurrent use by several players at once.
What the island needs, IMO, is the following:
A bank: one chest per person. place to store your things either as a resupply stash after death, or a quick dump of your inv. seeing as how it's both the primary spawn and a central transportation station, it would see a lot of traffic and would be the easiest-to-reach place, much easier then your own home.
A pub/diner: technically, a place to get food. has pork chop generators working, serving food directly to several tables which people can just pick up and go.
A community center: place for a bulletin board. basically a motherload of signs - and i mean it when i say a motherload. separated into sections:
* help on the server,
* help on console commands,
* news/notifications from admins,
* "looking for help on a project" for recruiting people for large scale projects with a similar board constructed by each of the project's architect on-site, for offline communication and effort coordination
* "need resources plz" for requesting things others might share.
* Q&A
* general randomness, akin to what was going on on the roof of the Ark on the old map
Share Center: An area for people to dump the stuff they don't need or have too much of.
The gate assembly: the nether gate is the most prominent feature of the island and the reason why it exists. there should be facilities dedicated to it's "upkeep"
Everything else should be dedicated to parks and various beautification stuffs.


Vint, we could have used your help when we were making the city, not after we finished it. XD The only "grinder" in the city is the pork chop cooker. The other "farms" are an obsidian rig, a wheat field, a cobble forge (and subsequent furnaces, no cobble castles, people!), and an 80% capped tree farm for wood cutting. Farms were all Pink's design.

There is a community center which Mawr designed that includes everything in your list. The idea of a bank would need some rigging, as I believe the chests there now are multiple community purpose. There are a number of signs in there and we have room to add even more as needed.

The "Inn", my project, has rooms, chests and a pub/tavern style to it.

The Nether portal station is at the center of the belly and leads to RATS. The portals there aren't anything special. Also down there is Caigan's "Mall". Player shops are up above.


griffin wrote:Now the purpose for the island's existence.

Currently there is none. From a roleplay perspective, what was the reason for expelling an extraordinary amount of effort to erect the thing in the first place, and why keep maintaining it right now? Surely not for the meager pub and a get-together place that's built on top of it, which could might as well have been built 200 miles away and on solid mainland.
That purpose might be an object, or a place - or both. The current theme is that this object is the Alpha Nether gate, discovery of which by the people on the land made distant travel possible. The gate should be the primary, prominent feature of the island and the only reason for it's existence despite the expenses required. Everything else there are just utility buildings.

This theme can blend nicely with the location.
Nether gates are like dark magic voodoo stuff, portals to hell and all that. Nobody knows how they work or where they came from. One day they just appeared. And as they did, the land warped around them creating chasms and craters in their wake, terminator orb warp-from-the-future style. Many gates appeared throughout the land, but none of them altered the lansdcape as much as the master gate did. The blast of magic was so strong that not only did it leave massive cavern centered around the gate but even altered space time itself leaving a portal to absolute void at the bottom. Many a time local villagers thew a cow or a chicken down there, but never did they hear a splat.
Anyway. Nether portals create fields around them that push things away, thus creating a spherical empty space around them. The importance of the gate determines the force of that field and thus, the size of the sphere. If that theme is to be applied to all surface nether gates, it could perhaps look cool. For ocean based gates, water blocks are to be removed to form said sphere under the gate.

Best place for the alpha gate would be under the island, a bit above bedrock level. It is best if it was shaped more sophisticated then your average door frame. Thinking Oblivion gates here.
Position would explain why the void under the island exists and why it hasn't been covered yet as an obvious threat to the population, and justify the existence of the island itself and the cavern it floats above in the first place. Also the late ring around the base of the island, the newly refurbished observation area, would have something to observe from.


As for theme, this is what took us the longest to settle on for -anything-. Eventually we went with Kami's Palace ala Dragon Ball and fiddled with it from there. The basic idea now, so far as I can tell, is this thing smacked into the ground and punched a hole into the Nothing then was kept stable by the ring and runes on its surface.

Vint, you have some fun ideas we really wish you had brought up sooner. It isn't too late, and Pink and I readily admit not having too much of an eye for flare. Log in, come see the city, let us show you around. Pink likes your Alpha gate and glowstone ideas, maybe we can get something going.

Plus, and more concerning, we have -8- other stations we need to design things for, as they open to endless ocean. We're discussing what we want, Pink and I, and would love some more creative people to throw things with!
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Postby Chittebengo » Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:28 pm

Vint, Steam is borking. IM Pink or myself on yahoo. Chittebengo and Pink_luigi. We'll talk. :3
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Postby MawringFox » Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:42 pm

Well. Bukkit is released so we dont have much time anymore.

And yeah Vint.. its sorta to late.
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Postby Pink_Luigi » Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:40 pm

What we could REALLY use, VInt, is ideas for markers over the Overworld's netherportals.

Chitte and I agreed on something floating. Something we could put against the skybox as a beacon over the landscape, hovering over where a gateway stands.

I've been working on a kinda weather balloon, something with a bit of fire or glowstone to make it more noticable. But my ideas run thin.
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Postby griffin » Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:12 pm

I need to mention this up front. Not a single time in what I am saying is me trying to devalue what has been done by others or criticizing the ideas that led to those things being done. I'm just trying to express my view on this and admittedly, I can sometimes get a wee bit more defensive of that view then necessary.

Pink_Luigi wrote:If only we had.. You know.
Had this input WHILE WE WERE MAKING THE DAMN THING. >:(

Well, it's not like I was invited to help you out with making it which would trigger my earlier train of thought.... well, earlie :P. I've only been to this thread like four times since the old map was scrapped and the server shut down. Not enough reminders D:

Pink_Luigi wrote:I'm reading over now. Some good ideas, some good suggestions in change I agree with. Don't think much will change in-spawn. But we can still edit the buildings and world around it to make it look more acceptable. I'll get back on this after talking it out with the others.

It's entirely up to you to decide, wasn't really trying to enforce my POV on anyone. In fact if it wasn't for the power outage at work i'd have never written it at all, takes too much time to put thoughts to paper. It's almost 2012, where's my thought recognition software already.
The way I see it, it'd be a lot easier to pop the map in MCEdit or something and make 70% of the adjustments right there; to save time. Anchor points and chains for example: make one, clone it 4 times.


Chittebengo wrote:You're into the realm of my things right now. We don't take kindly to strangers 'round these parts. *spits chew out the corner of his mouth*

I used to be a self confident person like you; then I took an arrow in the knee. Allow me to acquaint you with my creeper legal rights lawyer.

Chittebengo wrote:Alright, let me address your concerns. There are glowstone pads on the bottom of the city with iron runes placed upon them.

Son, when you got stuff that both glows and levitates the last thing you want is to flatten and polish it, losing much of the hard to get, valuable material in the process. More so to dilute it with crude iron. Many a brave adventurer gave their lives to bring you the soul gem matter you are so carelessly handling right there. How inconsiderate of you D:

Uh yeah, enough of this silliness.
As for the rest of the stuff; I'm not saying it's bad nor am I saying it's good either - I simply haven't seen any of it to form an opinion :P All I'm going by are a few "spawn closeup" screenshots on Mawr's map, and the top down view of the map itself.
My idea was to give the location a bit of lore and history, which would kind of half-assedly explain why thing were done the way they were; and hopefully establishing a theme in the process that could have been kept consistent and passively inspire people to give a bit of an extra thought and meaning to what they will be building, in a similar fashion.

And it's never too late to start; as like with all living stories, there's no end to be had and it will just keep on developing for as long as the server exists. If not this spawn, right here, right now, then somewhere else, by someone else, at some other time :P
What's good is giant tree and the stuff built around it without a backstory to it all? What good are the other areas of the map where other stuff is built, if not at least thinly linked together under the overarching lore of the ongoing virtual world. Just a bunch of pixel art, millions of square meter blocks arranged in shapes and forms some more pleasing then others, and hundreds of man-hours lost for no particular nor much enjoyable reason.

Chittebengo wrote:The only "grinder" in the city is the pork chop cooker. The other "farms" are an obsidian rig, a wheat field, a cobble forge (and subsequent furnaces, no cobble castles, people!), and an 80% capped tree farm for wood cutting. Farms were all Pink's design.

The other reason for omitting the farms from the island that I failed to mention is that with all the stuff there'd simply be no space left for them, at least the way I saw it. I almost got half a mind to suggest making the entire surface area just one big garden, multilayer even with vines and everything akin to the Hanging gardens of Babylon; hiding all that other stuff under the surface.

Chittebengo wrote:Vint, you have some fun ideas we really wish you had brought up sooner. It isn't too late, and Pink and I readily admit not having too much of an eye for flare. Log in, come see the city, let us show you around. Pink likes your Alpha gate and glowstone ideas, maybe we can get something going.
Plus, and more concerning, we have -8- other stations we need to design things for, as they open to endless ocean. We're discussing what we want, Pink and I, and would love some more creative people to throw things with!

Regrettably I don't have much time available this week, save for perhaps these weekends. Seeing as how Bukkit for 1.0 is out, you'd probably have to finish the map by then.
In any case, what's the server's address? I was never really told.
I'm trying to imagine myself with a personality.
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Postby griffin » Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:23 pm

Pink_Luigi wrote:What we could REALLY use, VInt, is ideas for markers over the Overworld's netherportals.
Chitte and I agreed on something floating. Something we could put against the skybox as a beacon over the landscape, hovering over where a gateway stands.
I've been working on a kinda weather balloon, something with a bit of fire or glowstone to make it more noticable. But my ideas run thin.


Honestly I kind of liked your lava+glass arrows, but iirc they are two dimensional when as we need it look like an arrow from all sides. Rotating one 90 degrees and pasting it over would probably not look good because of the arrow's small size.
The other idea is possibly something like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rote4Kwk-M, if that can be made good looking and compact enough. Powered by a redstone pulsar.
I'll think about other possibilities at some point.
I'm trying to imagine myself with a personality.
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Postby Chittebengo » Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:22 am

griffin wrote:Honestly I kind of liked your lava+glass arrows, but iirc they are two dimensional when as we need it look like an arrow from all sides. Rotating one 90 degrees and pasting it over would probably not look good because of the arrow's small size.
The other idea is possibly something like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rote4Kwk-M, if that can be made good looking and compact enough. Powered by a redstone pulsar.
I'll think about other possibilities at some point.


The waypoints for the minor stations and the arrows are mine, just something tossed up the night we had RATS put in. Pink dislikes the arrows. >.> I wanted to do a blinking sign kind of deal, possibly using pistons and lava, but they gets a bit complex and beyond my means.
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Postby griffin » Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:46 pm

Code: Select all
Far: 400
Normal: 256
Small: 128
Tiny: 64

One thing to note would be the draw distance. At max. you're able to see 400 blocks ahead of you, so the arrows should not be overly large or overly flashy to be noticeable. And you'll only be able to see them if you're in the gate's vicinity anyway.
And if we leave visual guides to the gates from all the space in-between them, it'd look obtrusive.

Perhaps just roads.
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Postby MawringFox » Sun Dec 18, 2011 2:54 pm

griffin wrote:
Code: Select all
Far: 400
Normal: 256
Small: 128
Tiny: 64



I think those values are wrong.. I dont know where you got those.

The Minecraft Chunk Cache (Multiplayer) most of the times only has 441 Chunks loaded (in a square)
Taking the square root of 441 results in 21Chunks/axis...

21Chunks are 336blocks and because you are in the center of the square you have to divide it by 2..

You dont see more than 168 blocks at far infront of you.
Thats why i dont know how you get onto those 400
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