Should Pyros Have To Aim To Ignite You?

[Tehrasha]

[miniskunk]

I second that frustration. Even if you have the Scout perfectly in the sight, he can still fail to ignite. I know many TF2 players seem to feel the Pyro is too powerful and requires no skill whatsoever but nothing could be further from the truth. In order to even ignite someone they have to be dead ahead of you. It becomes more complicated when you are trying to catch up to a sidestepping target or chasing someone down as the flame doesn't project as far forward. The nerf for the Pyro is you are fighting in close range. Any bullet that hits you hits harder and is less likely to miss. In fact nothing in the Pyro's arsenal is effective from a long distance unlike other classes(shotgun spreads out too wide at a distance and the flare travels so slow as it is easy to dodge). Nothing needs to be done to the Pyro, he is perfect as he is. I have logged over 200 hours as Pyro. If you spend as much time in one class as I have, you learn to appreciate and compensate for it's deficiencies as well as it's strengths. Those who are proficient at Pyro may make it seem overpowered to other players. I think this sentiment is due mostly from players who haven't learned how to defend against a pyro. 9 times out of 10 players just run away in fear not remembering that the Pyro doesn't have a lot of hit points he can take before going down. Face up to the Pyro and I think you will find he isn't such a scary opponent.

[NikkyVix]

[Ayeaka]

Yes.

I wish there was a way to fix flame detections, but eh. I play pyro myself, and you have no idea how frustrating it gets when I do so, only for the enemy team to decide we 'only won because we utilized the easy button'.

Easy button. Oh, yes. Because sneaking up behind each and every one of you, ambushing again and again from behind and above, AND backing off to actually bring you down with my shotgun or otherwise escape, running away to find a medic, is perfectly easy.

...ok, so the sniper I chopped to death was easy.

ASIDE FROM THAT...


I don't think pyro needs any nerfs. And no, I don't say this because I play pyro. (Without unlocks, mind you.) I also play spy. I play spy a LOT more than I do pyro, and the lesser skilled pyros really don't pose a problem for me as spy unless I'm just blatantly refusing to do anything properly.

(PISTOLERO 8D)

Half the time pyros can be taken care of at a distance with ease. And if I see a sentry with pyro protection, then I'm just stupid if I decide to go racing up to it, and am ignited. A teammate can handle that. (We spies love those of you that coordinate with us. <3 )

I think, aside from lousy hit detection, (which yes, latency, as Nikky brought up,), that pyro's juuuuust fine how he is.

[CAPTAIN_BRUMBL3Z]

I'm just tired of being ignited either when the flames appeared farther away than they apparently were (seems to occur regardless of ping differences and ping size), being ignited by apparently nothing (which is bloody constantly) and of course, when as spy, having some errant single puff ignite you because they got bored, felt like being a spaz, or spy check all the way to the front lines.

I'm sure Valve would implement it very well if they considered it. Just so long as I have a chance of evading the flame enough to prevent ignition when they are just barely licking me, and so long as a single errant puff (I swear I've taken as much as 50 before, but i definitely know I've taken 40) igniting me as ANY class, I think we'd be fine. A full second of constant exposure at the weakest range should ignite someone, and if you charge right into them they should ignite. But, if you got the jump on the enemy team, you might not be able to burn every single one, which I think would be a good thing when everyone panics and takes the medic's only medpack

I mean, it's not as if I can't fight pyros, but ever since their damage boost the afterburn has become almost a counter to the scout if I can't keep away, and from invisible flames to the unpredictability of the flamer, and pyro farts of doom which have happened with increasing frequency, I am just absolutely sick of being ignited no matter how hard I try.

[Ayeaka]

Keep in mind how long a 'full second' is, in gametime. Something shorter. Quarter of a second, maybe?

A half second at most, if they implemented that.

[Mr. Munchlax]

Also another neat trick I've learned with the pyro is that you can ignite someone that's just barely out of reach of the flamethrower if you airblast while flaming, so maybe that's what's happening to you? Of course airblasting stops your flames so maybe not...

[RumRunner]

also brumbles you need to remember the flamethrower's particles are off. the flame does not show where all of the particles are. the range of the flame thrower is a bit longer than it appears... why valve did this i don't know... but i do know that that is the way it is.

[miniskunk]

[Purplecat]

Actually a pyro should and can switch to shotgun in situations where stickies would stop him from following a demoman. Plus closeup, even the best demoman will have problems with pyros if surprised. Plus an airblasting pyro shouldn't have problems shoving those stickies aside, especially in a wide open area.

The demoman is supposed to be lacking in closeup battles, and that's where the pyro wins. Unfortunately there's lots of pyros out there who don't grasp the concept of "flanking" (or aiming for that matter) so most demoman players have alot of time to either fight against the pyro or run to safety.

My biggest annoyance with pyro is how easy it is for that class to ruin it for other spies. The spy class requires quite a bit effort to play, while spychecking barely requires any effort. :/ In many games, this means that snipers don't have to worry about spies and the only counter to snipers is countersnipers... spy was already a bit "weak" before the pyro update... and I gave up playing spy as main after said update and just went with demoman.

And towards newer players, Pyro is a class that is hard to counter, easy to play. And all classes should be as capable over all skill levels as it possible can... so if i'd changed him, I would only make him little more harder to play for newbies without necessarily punishing the "pro" pyros who know the class in and out.

Amusingly I do recall lots of "pyro is fine" discussions when he was underpowered. :/

Oh yeah, I must do point out... the best counter against pyro is a soldier or heavy. Airblast can be a problem for the soldier at a certain distance, but closeby it's really hard for the pyro to time it right. Heavy with a natascha is the best thing ever against mouse1+w pyros.