Sandman?

[Helios]

So I was just on the Steam forums, and there's quite a bit of rage over the Sandman. People are saying it makes the Scoot overpowered and whatnot, and are calling for it to be nerfed or scrapped.

I dun have that wooden slugger yet, but I think it does it's job well. People say it sucks because the Scoot can stun you from long range. Well hey, it could be worse: I could be blowin yer head off from that distance too ;>

What y'all think?

[NikkyVix]

As I have stated in-game, my opinion is that the Sandman's effect breaks the idea of a weapon hierarchy.

You are an ubered Heavy. You are invincible. A Soldier fires a critical rocket capable of killing damn near any non-overhealed baddie at you..you shrug it off and gun him down, then turn your attention to try and reach the puny baby Level 3 Sentry gun that dares scratch your coruscating immortal hide with its feeble munitions.

In your path you gun down the Spy that's flanking you, stabbing desperately at your back, waiting for your Uber to drain so that he can end your mad rampage. You laugh maniacally and turn him into so much swiss cheese.

Then you turn your gun on the puny Scout racing in with his little baseba--Oh FUCK! You're stunned, dizzy, unable to move! It's a fucking ball, no lethal abilities or special magic or anything funky..but your impervious body is still unable to move! Your Medic screams "Wake up! Wake up, Schweinhund!" Then your Uber drains. Then you regain sense just in time to be reduced to bloody pulp by sentry rockets and bullets.

This scenario utterly negates the effectiveness of an Ubercharge. All kinds of weapons just bounce off of an ubered pair, but a fricking baseball has an effect on them regardless of their state? I've destroyed a half-dozen ubered pairs using the Sandman already and while it's dirty fun in the moment, I feel a bit guilty by such a cheap maneuver.

In my opinion the Sandman should, at most, slow any Ubered character that's been hit if it has to do anything to them. It just strikes me as silly that a baseball can do more indirect damage to an uber rush than all the guns and even an air blast from a Pyro. It's like the cheapest dev-approved exploit ever.

[Purplecat]

The airblast was bad enough, but at least you were able to kill the pyro blowing you around. And while the heavy isn't hurting statswise (he is one of the classes who would be worst affected by sandman I belive, outside of ubers), it feels like the change to sandman mostly hurt the medic... since his ubercharge is basically useless if his ubered patient (or himself!) is hit.

...the meaning of ubercharge is to break stalemate situations, and unfortunately that's my biggest issue with it. However you can counter it with by rushing with several people at once, and switch uber target if the main target is getting bonked.

Everyone and their mom have been whining about the Sandman since it's release. I have a feeling it be nerfed pretty soon. I hope to see a small buff on the bonk too due to it's limited usability right now.

[Helios]

*looks at Nikky's post and whistles* Wow, descriptive there Vix.

Again it seems the biggest complaint about the Sandman is that it's an Uber killer, though I will say that a good backup during an Uber can still get the job done, and at least give cover to the hapless victim of the Ball.

The saving grace is that if the Ball misses, the Scoot has to get a new one, a task that can range to midly difficult to outright suicide, but then again he can always get a new one from the spawn.

The Ball is also avoidable, I laugh at the Scoots who try to put their Balls on my face and end up on the reciving end of the ol' chop chop, but slower classes have a hard time. If you're a fellow Scoot, should be no problem, but if yer Fattycakes, you'd better say goodbye to yer kneecaps chucklehead!

This is what I think the Sandman was originally inteded to be: An anti-Heavy weapon, but Valve turned it into an Uber-breaker.

In addition to Nikky's suggestion, I'll throw out my nerf: The Pyro can blast the Ball away, and Scoots with the Sandman can hit it back. I suggest giving classes the ability to melee or shoot down the Ball, which could at the very least deflect it away.

Oh and a Ball can be magic if it's signed by Babe Ruth or somebody. I'd like to think the same would apply if it was signed by Jack Bauer, but I don't think he's into Baseball :p.

[RumRunner]

the ball is even more dangerous should you hit the medic of the uber-pair with it. for that action breaks the uber and leaves the target vulnerable to enemy fire. at which point the uber becomes a medic-escape tool once the stun wears off.

[Jinx]

[Helios]

Jinx, the Balls can be reflected by the Sandman and the Air blast (there's an achivement for that IIRC)

The Scoot should be able to pick up the Ball. He loves that Ball ;o

[Jinx]

I haven't yet seen or heard of anybody reflecting the ball with the airblast yet, but it seems likely considering it's a projectile (has anybody actually done this and can confirm it?). And the beanball achievement (stun a scout with his own ball(s?)) is only attainable by picking up the ball of a scout who missed and hitting him with that, I don't think you can actually hit it back with the sandman. I love that line, I was walking through egypt when I heard a quiet "I love my ball" slightly off in the distance in one of those cave areas XD

[Ayeaka]

I don't use, nor do I plan on ever using, the Sandman.

However...

For the most part, I could care less. Most of the problems I've encountered with it relate to the fact that there were, oh, say, 8 scouts spamming it on the enemy team.

None of them could hit the broad side of a barn... (I've had scouts miss me multiple times, one after the other, as a STATIONARY heavy, only to finally hit me when they were trying to hit a soldier SHOOTING at them. Ahem.)

With ubers, however... I have no problems with them STUNNING the uber. my only complaint is that stunning the medic turns the uber OFF for the patient.

If there was some way to alter this, well, I'd have no problem at all. Why, you ask?

Simple. If the medic's stunned, then his target can still do damage within the heal radius.

If the TARGET is stunned, then the medic can switch to a new target, or move in himself, to draw sentry fire. This is something I've done plenty of times as medic, when one target was rendered well, pointless. (due to Pyros usually, and they somehow couldn't kill him due to the angle they were flying about at.)

Ubers, I've noticed, in some situations, are more useful as a distraction, than for the uber itself; say you have a massive sentry nest, and one uber can't get it all...yet due to placement the uber can still move in without being completely blown away.
No, but the uber distracting it while your entire team moves in and fires, then takes the point, CERTAINLY can. And one scout can't stun the entire team.


Also, something amusing I've found.

A scout NOT using the unlockables can kill scouts USING them effortlessly. >:)

[Taggerung]

I LOATH THE SANDMAN