Sandman?

Discuss TF2! Or don't. Whatever takes your fancy.

Postby Jam Out! » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:32 am

At first I thought the Sandman was cute and a fun unlock but now that people have had time to practice with it now I see it only as a huge nuisance. I'm not the only one, CEVO have banned the Sandman in competitions and I think they're right to do it. As it stands right now a Sandman Scout can neutralize an uber push at no risk to himself. While a Pyro can juggle an ubered enemy that enemy is still free to attack and kill the turrets they're after or the Pyro who has to engage the ubered target at melee range, the Scout can just pop out from around a corner and bonk the ubered target at waste half of their charge from range. It's even worse if this is happening at the last point of a map because then the Scout can run to the lockers and restock another ball and do it all over again. I'm not going to make a 'Valve dropping the ball with this patch' joke because that would be a godawful pun but the sooner Valve does something to bring the Sandman in line the better, I don't want to have to sit through weeks of bullshit like with the pre-patch Backburner.

Phew, sorry for the whines, just wanted to get that off my chest.
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Postby Jinx » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:33 pm

The problem with CEVO though, is that they're playing a slightly different game of TF2 since they use class restrictions. In an environment with a forced number of classes there will be situations where weapons like the sandman will become more powerful than originally envisioned, especially in a 6v6 environment where stunning just one player can make a huge difference, so it makes sense that they would ban this weapon from play. Valve will probably nerf it, but probably not too much; it still needs some time for new strategies to be developed to counter the sandman.

As a side note, an interesting trend I'm seeing is that the unlocks tend to make you weaker if you're going up against the same class with the original weapons. Perhaps the cure to all these sandmen scouts are scouts not using the unlocks at all? Hmmm...
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Postby Dravu » Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:29 pm

It's really fun getting stunned during arena and sudden death. Or getting stunned by one ball and then 2 after it since you can't move and just sitting there for 10+ seconds until a sniper finally headshots you to get you out of it.
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Postby Kellervo » Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:03 pm

As a pyro, I have to say this update has been by far the most infuriating. The Force of Nature's absurd knockback is bad enough, but the fact an ambush can be made completely null and void with a single scout, is infuriating. If the scout's FaN doesn't send you flying up into the air while the rest of the team lights you up, the Sandman paralyzes you and you get to hear the scout's witty one liners as he beats you up with his bat, or worse, just decides to keep you paralyzed and hits you with the baseball over and over. It's made my playing style COMPLETELY useless because now every class can counter an ambush with such frightening ease. I had no choice but to W+M1 after awhile because I was so tired of being stunned or tossed around like a ragdoll by a class that used to be a cakewalk to kill but can suddenly go toe-to-toe at pointblank range with what is supposed to be the best close-quarters class, and come out UNSCATHED.

It's infuriating.
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Postby pablofiasco » Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:35 pm

airblasting a scounts ball back at him and watching HIM stand stunned for a few seconds is always fun for a few laughs however,

ive done it a few times now, and with practice i hope to be able to do it more regularly
(heh, and airblasting an incoming ball, into an enemys ubered medic is just Rofl time)
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Postby Ayeaka » Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:32 pm

The more I see the scout updates now, the more I realize I'll probably never use them.

Force-a-Nature scouts make me laugh, especially.

"D'awww, you have two shots? Ain't that cute. I can dodge you, AND I have six. :D"

And now I just see more and more teams losing horrendously because they have five people not willing to play anything more than scout.
Ah well. 8D
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Postby STrRedWolf » Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:52 pm

Yeah. The FoN and the Sandman are probably the only two weapons upgrades I'd go for, the latter for the taunt -- bonk a heavy from far, run up, point, and SCHWIIIING!

I see no value in BONK! Energy Drink, however. Why didn't they just licence Jolt! Cola instead...
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Postby Lorax12 » Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:15 am

the sandman is a pain in the ass wepon, but i can sort of see the idea behind it; to give the scout a way to escape some thing that would normaly kill him, or to be more effective at taking down a heavier class (i.e soldier, demo,heavy) and to counter a uber, the airblast works but how often would a pyro use it, with the sandman it kinda is a take out and throw... however i do think it does need a change or two, like a charge like the demo sticky bomb. but it seems all they did was make the scout better for picking out straglers, and improved his ability to take down a larger class that has seen him and has started shooting at him, before the update the scout was weak and was easy to take down if you were ready and knew what part of a gun the bullets came put of. i just tend to think of the whole update on improving a class that was never used, before there was rarely a scout on a team didnt matter if they were defending or attacking there was no scouts.
even though that bat will always piss me off... it is like what niki said killing a few things minding my own bussniss and then a ball hits me out of no wear and i get killed :|
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Postby Dusty » Sun Mar 08, 2009 7:25 pm

I find it annoying yes but really I haven't noticed much of a differnce. Ubers still work just fine for breaking down a defense espically if your team is with you.

I've been bitched at by medic and soldier players for hitting them with the baseball then 2 point-blank hits with the FaN but I can simply reply that it is a legitimate strategy, just like a pyro airblasting rockets back at the player till he gets close enough to kill them.
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Postby Dravu » Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:46 pm

Features of scout:
1. Double-jump
2. Double capping speed
3. Much faster than any other class (can quickly get places, can run away from classes and shoot back at them, etc)
4. Can kill most classes with two up-close shots and with the FoC, the other class can't even really fight back since they're thrown into the air
5. Can stun even a heavy and easily just run up and kill him or leave him to team-mates to take care of
6. Can stun ubers. Crit rockets, fully charged sniper shots, NOTHING. Only baseballs can do anything to ubers, the feature that was supposed to help break the worst of situations
7. Can get a few seconds of invuln for only a few seconds of waiting time
8. The billion other things scouts can do

The scout's weapons should've stayed close-range. The upgrades compared to the other classes' upgrades (outside of maybe the ubersaw) are horribly unbalanced. The scout class itself is horribly unbalanced. All this shit came just after the demoman and soldier both got nerfed a decent bit, so hopefully they'll do the same with the scout. I'd like them to remove the baseball altogether, but I doubt that'll happen. The scout class was already very powerful. It was just hard to use. Now it's twice as powerful and easy enough for many newbies to grasp and abuse to no end.
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