A recent server trend

[Dusty]

Stacking. Its happening on the server as I type this message. And I feel its growing way out of control. The reason I started playing on this server is because it was much more lax then the cc2iscool network. Alltalk was on, HlSS was allowed in moderation, and the players were generally friendly and welcoming. However with the recent disabling of alltalk when players are on has changed this drastically. No longer can you play your friends and talk to them too. This has led to stacking of the teams. Join a game and look at the spectator bar list and there are most likely at least 2 regulars trying to get on the same team simply waiting on someone else to click random or join the team that is one down.

I've asked several people why they do this and they tell me because they want to play with their friends. I understand that and feel their pain. Most of the time I click random when joining a team and usually end up on the team full of pubbers against all my friends and the server regulars. If that's the case then why not turn alltalk back on? Because of the loud noises? Teach the players some restraint. Mute, kick, and ban those who can't handle not playing hlss every 5 seconds. It doesn't matter if they're popular and a regular. If they really wanted what is best for the server they wouldn't be spamming the sound channels with wilhiem-screams. Admins need to get their hands dirty. When I used to administrate for a quake mod called Tremulous I got kicked out of my clan for muting and kicking the Leader. Was it our server? No but we played there often. Or I suggest getting a vent or teamspeak like other servers do. They're actually pretty good for communities.

Another reason for the stack in a single player, Doom. Now hold your cry some m0ars and just listen. Yes Doom is a very component player on a server of component players. He's probably one of the best demoman I've played with and I've played with many good demomen. However his presence alone shouldn't sway outcome of the game as much as it does. He joins the other team causing my team to go "OH NOES THEY GOT DOOM ITS OVER!!!!!11" and of course because they believe they're going to fail they fail. The next map starts and the spectator bar is like 3 lines long of people waiting to join his team because "They don't want to lose." Those forced on to the other team then say its hopeless and don't try their hardest. Of course there also up against the "Dream Team" of server regulars.

Like it or not the community has raised Doom up on the pedestal that he sits. I'm nowhere near denying that he's an exceptional player and CAN bring a team to victory but really he's not some God-like person that can never be beat. He needs a team too. He can't kill the 3 well placed sentries alone. He needs a medic and Uber for that. Then he'll probably need a little bit of back up to help while he reloads after that. So please just because Doom is on a team shouldn't mean anything.



So to recap here are my points:
1. Bring alltalk back. Admins should take the time to control those who can't control themselves. After a few actions the community will get the picture and things will get better.
2. Use the random team button. If the majority use it then you will end up with someone to talk to and have challenging fun game with roughly even teams.
3.Ventrilo or Teamspeak Server.
4.Just because its Doom doesn't mean you will lose. Get some fire in your belly. LEADERSHIP NOT LOSERSHIP.


You may now dispute, condemn, support, argue, and spam this topic but please lets try to keep civil and leave out the personal attacks.

[Fernin]

I agree on all counts.

[STrRedWolf]

I also agree, and say it's very trivial to set up a TeamSpeak server. The furs over on Furnation used it for communicating over Eve Online.

[Fenriswulfdemon]

The staking lately has been ridiculous, and those unlucky enough to be playing at night have gotten some rude remarks from my now increasing rage moments. It's not Doom's fault at all. I have no hate towards him at all, it's at those who join to win, or are afraid. I was ready to smash my computer in when I was yelling for the team to kill the demo of above them "But it's Doom" was the response. People don't seem to realize he's just another player, he's not some God (no offense Doom). Yeah, fantastic player, best I've ever seen, but if others actaully tried to fight him, they might be surprised to find that he can die like every other player out there. I see where the alltalk had been a problem in the past, especailly with all the new people. It does help with strategy and all, but the regulars seem to drift towards their friends' teams, just to be abel to communicate. It's not as much fun when you can't threaten and joke with your friends on opposite teams. There's not much that can be done about this though, eventually when the newcomers find their place, as regulars, or passerbys, some form of unspoken order might be placed. Just have to deal with it for now. It's not fair to ask for people to switch teams all the time.

[Doom]

[pablofiasco]

disclaimer: NONE of this is meant to be an insult or anthing like that in any way shape or form,
that being said:

yes, doom is a good player, damned god, but he is beatable "usually"
the problem is doom tends to attract medics like sandvichs atttract heavys, pretty soon he has a nice train attached to him,
and when you get a real good player, with even a pair of good medics on him, you jsut cant do enough damange to kill him before the medics have him healed up already (which is why i make it a point to bypass whoever is the attacker, and go right for the medics, i see countless other players thou, in perfect postion to kill the medics, just standthere like a drone and waste shots at doom/whoever when its not going to have any real effect, Kill those #%*%^*#$*@#($) medics first da$%(%)

on sound: yes, with alltack, depending on how 'exciting" the game it teh voice overlap can get pretty bad, is thier any serverside mods to allow alltalk but limit it to only 2-4 "channels" at a time maybe?

[Echoen]

I have to say that TF2 is never as much fun as it is when the teams are balanced. When it's a hard fight BOTH ways and the only thing that tilts the balance is a mix of luck and teamwork.

I've been on a hard goal as of the past few weeks. I've been practicing, training, and grinning with evil as I pump my skill up as Medic. What is my goal? To be about-equal in points with Doom when he's a demoman when I'm on the opposite team as Medic. In working for this goal I have found a few things.

1) Prioritize. Targeting Doom is the LAST thing you want. Murder Witchie and/or the other medic that invariably gravitates towards him, and doom falls like a house of cards. Team Fortress 2 puts heavy emphasis on team - doom is only so 'good' because of Dedicated Medics or other people that know how to work with him. I'm not saying that his medics ignore other team-mates - but they follow him first. Take them down and Doom is just as melty as any of us.

2) Grouping. Past few weeks especially, people are drawn to certain individuals and groups of individuals. This in turn creates unbalanced teams. I wish I was recognized more or 'followed' to some of the same extent that Doom is, but hey, that's part of why I'm working so hard at this goal anyway. I digress. In no particular order, the "big" players who are followed are: Nikky, Witchie, Jake Monroe, Doom, Red Eye, Ailure, Billiam, and others that have some fame and notoriety around here. The more of these people that are on the same team, the more that others don't want to oppose them. The best games that I have played in are where these people are SPLIT UP. About equal numbers on both teams. Red Eye vs Billiam, Ailure Vs Witchie, Nikky Vs Doom (Sniper vs Sniper, Spy vs Medic, Demo vs Demo respectively, if I was to name "Signature Class"). "Stacking" occurs when all these people and others are on the same team. These people know how to work together very well. I wish I was counted as one of them, but that's why I'm working so hard.

3) Organizing. Regulars vs pubfags. You know why the regulars usually win? It's not because they are more skilled than the pubfags - but it's because pubfags don't know each other. They don't know and are often unwilling to work together. To stick together. To function for the greater good - a pyro hanging around an engineer to protect from spies. On a pubfag team, the pyro runs off to just kill things, leaving the Engy paranoid about his stuff, thus forgetting to build teleporters, thus slowing the whole team down, etc etc etc etc..... How to solve this problem? Again, splitting the regulars to get a good mix of regs and pubs. The regs provide the leadership and the pubs provide the bullets.

[Dusty]

[JimmyChopblock]

I believe that the re-emergance of constant all talk would probably heal a lot of the wounds mentioned in this thread, and I also agree that simply moderating the players better who get out of hand with it is likely the better option over simply turning all-talk off. The server WAS, in my opinion, more fun with all talk because you didn't have to worry about being on the same team to "play with your friends". This DOES add to "stacking". I feel bad joining a team with all of my friends on it because I know we're just going to, in most cases, roll over the other team.

I think with the addition of more constant moderators, we should give constant all-talk another shot. if it doesn't work out we just set it back to usual. doesn't hurt to experiment eh?

[Witchiebunny]

I'll say this: The issue's being looked at, but I need to talk to the admins about it before I can implement anything, k?

Trust me......the problem's been noticed.