Map Idea 2 - Payload - Looking for Input

[Stormcaller3801]

Hey kids, guess what time it is? That's right, Uncle Stormy's got another harebrained idea to make a map. This time he's working on a payload map with the cart path based on part of his daily drive home.



The map's largely divided into five boxes, which I could probably translate into five points without too much hassle.

Box 1

This is designed as a long fairly open area with the cart path being more or less straight for the duration once it's out the door. On one side you have a collection of buildings that separate the open area from train tracks. These tracks offer a very fast way to move down the row of buildings, but it also has a risk: the train. These buildings are going to be heaven for a Sniper, Soldier or anyone else who's happiest standing on a balcony shooting people. For that reason I'm considering an array of trucks and other details in the yard to provide some cover; I'm also hoping to set it up so that a Pyro or Spy can slip across the narrow divide from BLU spawn and clean house as necessary. BLU has a larger building with a narrow walkway opposite, allowing return fire. Hopefully this balances out well. I could use ideas here for how to keep it balanced and interesting.

Box 2

Here the path gets more curvy, as it loops around to prepare to cross under the train tracks. I'm considering some sort of explanation for why exactly it loops away and then back, but I don't have one just yet. Maybe a large rock. Large rocks are always fun.

In any case this is definitely an area where the shorter-range classes work well, and likely where I'd set up a secondary spawn point if I'd put one. RED has the large building enclosing the train tracks, but BLU has reached the point where they can use the buildings that hug the outside curve to get around it. A small area at ground level between the tracks and the buildings provides a decent Engie base area, which may remove the need for a secondary spawn point. I'm thinking this may also be a good area to add in some walkways above the cart path to help diversify the available areas to fight on.

Box 3

This is where RED really has a good chance of putting pressure on BLU. The layout of the map means that Snipers can get a clear shot at anyone who comes under the elevated tracks, and they have to cross an open area while boxed in on all sides. BLU can access the buildings on two sides via areas under their control, meaning they can reduce their exposure, but that freestanding building is going to be a real headache.

I think this may be another area that's a real pain to try and balance, just because it's going to be difficult to give RED the chance to make a good stand, while at the same time keeping it from being the area where BLU always loses. It should be interesting, to be sure.

Box 4

This is more of a headache area than any other, really. RED can defend it, but if BLU controls that building, they're going to have trouble. The only real options I can think of are to play around with that building's exits and entrances so that it's not really useful to BLU in terms of offense. That would allow RED to make use of the narrow path to get behind them, as well as use various means to take advantage of that narrow, open path the cart travels down. There's two points where Sentry Guns could cause trouble, but I have a feeling that RED would probably skip out on defending here and instead get ready for the final assault.

Box 5

The area for the final assault, somewhere between Hoodoo's second stage and Badwater Basin's area, with RED again having access on three sides. BLU has the unenviable job of storming into the teeth of this, but this is the point where RED is supposed to be best able to defend, so that makes sense. BLU should be able to use that freestanding building as a forward base, meaning it shouldn't require a tremendous amount of running to get here, and at the same time if RED eliminates that it's going to push BLU on their back foot as they run and try to get set up again. If BLU can take the buildings farthest from RED spawn, they can probably push RED back into their own base, and thus get the cart moving quickly.


So, that's what I've got so far. I'm hoping for suggestions on how I could improve it, things I should take into consideration, and any other random ideas people have that might make it better.

[Draco18s]

Looks pretty decent. You've got the basic layout, now the plan is to put in the cubby holes and side passages so that there is more than 1 way (3 is the best) into every important room. Find those optimal sentry locations and find two ways to assault them. A sentry shouldn't be killable only by an uber or only by a spy, which is what makes a lot of custom maps fail so badly.

[Minor editing]

[Ayeaka]

Yes;

Now, of course, with threes, two of the paths usually go into a central path, eventually, with the other side path going to a slightly different area; think of stage 1 goldrush for example.

You can take the stairs, or the main path, but both lead to the attic, (though the main path opens into RED's base.) The third path opens into a small sniper's nest.

Etc.

Also, when detailing the map, make sure to make alternate paths up to platforms... These are important for spies, especially. Now, we spies aren't well-LIKED, admitted, but we like our random barrels and crates to hop about and perch on. :<
Doubly so if they lead to a platform we can hop to while cloaked so that our path is less obvious.

I've noticed that Valve tends to locate such areas next to metal, as well, leading me to believe they expect these to be constant conflict points for cloaked spies. x-x
No, really, the lack of these is one of the main reasons why custom maps are usually a cluster fuck for spies.

And crates that are on already high platforms tend to be favored by snipers for a higher vantage, if there's not a designated 'area' for them.
They also make nice ambush points for level 1 sentries, which custom maps also typically lack.. (going in favor of eliminating these for more overly..obvious 'full nest' spots. ...which lead to monotony, imo.)

[Draco18s]

I want you in my map now.

You can see these kinds of details, but I don't have the eye to make sure I'm creating them right.

I'm not a very good spy or sniper, so I'm not sure what makes a good sniper spot some times (I mean, I have a few that I can see on my map right now, which is why I added a few props to make them less overkill--i.e. anti-sniper cover--because there's nothing worse than getting head shotted walking out of the spawn room (two of the...5ish ways out of blue spawn in my second round had sniper "nests" opposite, both being the most direct route towards the points).

I need more "random crap" in my level, and I'm pretty limited in what props are available (oil barrels, stacks of tires, rusted pipes, piles of wood, and crates don't really fit the theme).

[Stormcaller3801]

Well, what I have (more or less) is three paths, and in one area in particular, four (sort of). The buildings are going to be connected, at least to a limited degree- if I've set it up as a single object in the layout that might end up being several distinct building facades, but you'll be able to move through the entirety of it. For instance, the long rectangle in Box 1 that's opposite the BLU spawn is going to end up being around half a dozen 'buildings,' but you can get from one end to the other without venturing outside. Similarly, BLU has access to the large building next to it, although only to a limited degree- it's a secondary exit and a sniper balcony, more or less.

I also want to allow people to move from one building to another internally, to a limited degree. The general (although not universal) rule of thumb would be that you can move within one building on the map via multiple routes, but transitioning from one building to another will be limited to only one or two locations. Again, the long rectangle opposite BLU's spawn is a good example of this: there's three floors internally, and six distinct sections of it- but each section will have at least two doorways to each neighbor. Comparatively, moving from there to the large squarish building in Box 2 can only be done via one entrance, meaning you will likely have to double back and change floors to get there.

The basic idea is one that I think Valve mentioned in their commentary in TF2: there's a fast, direct path, and there's a slower, indirect path. The threat level is directly proportional to the speed. If you stay inside the buildings, you're going to be safer than if you follow the tracks, but it will take longer to get from point to point. The train tracks represent a variation on this: you can take them to get where you're going very quickly, as they're a straight shot through the area with no doorways, stairs, or anything else. They'll also likely have some decent health and ammo drops. However, there's also going to be a train on those tracks, so the threat level is high: you're basically gambling you can get on the tracks, run to the doorway off the tracks that you want, and get through it before you get hit by a train.

This is partially why I'm not too worried about Box 3's area that favors Snipers- there's buildings on either side which can be reached and then used as cover to get into that freestanding building. If BLU can take those they can dismantle the Sniper threat fairly quickly.

As for high platforms, I'm debating some suspended walkways above the cart path- one area in particular I'm thinking about is Box 2, with that open area. I could use this rock:

as the thing the track is avoiding, plus use it to connect to a series of walkways overhead.

[Ayeaka]

[Stormcaller3801]

Here's the basics for getting from building to building in the game- I think it should help resolve any questions about people getting boxed in or needing alternative routes:



It's impossible to get from one spawn to another without venturing outside at some point, but the potential exposure's fairly small. The biggest headache is simply that you can't push the cart without walking down the middle of a firing line, but that's pretty much the case for all of the payload maps, I think.

[Draco18s]

[Stormcaller3801]

Good news!



The train fits.

However, this also looks like it may end up being a huge ass map.

[Draco18s]

That is pretty large. Competes with my map.
(Threw the same rock in on the right side).