Spawncamping: The final word

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Postby NikkyVix » Mon Jun 08, 2009 6:47 pm

This isn't a rule that's open to numerous fragmented conditions:

Following the typical mapstart siege (Like what you see at every Dustbowl or Gold Rush start), If your actions are preventing people from being able to safely leave their re-spawn and get into play, you are in violation. You can see how that covers a wide variety of situations without us having to break them down in a manner approaching the legalese of a contractual document.

While we are very much aware that some spawn rooms are smackdab on the final objective point, we don't say anything about certain maps and their awkward spawn locations because those awkward spawn locations do not kill players...players kill players. If a player is stopping people from being able to leave their spawn, then that player is in the wrong. They should back off. Let them get a few steps out their door before they blast them into oblivion if need be. Just don't be a dick and spam/sticky/rocket/snipe them as they emerge to get some cheap kills, m'kay?

There are some very sportsmanlike and chivalrous players that we've seen in TFP, even going so far as to not interfere when they see Doom and I dueling with bottles in the middle of a war field. It's not impossible to avoid camping on the enemy's spawn, which is loads easier to resist. So please don't say a simple rule like this can't be followed because of circumstance A or B or 27..because those who play on our servers either will, or will face the consequences for not heeding the rules.
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Postby Kumagoro » Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:48 pm

I often wait above the spawn door as spy on 1st stage of Goldrush, allow then to get out and jump behind them to get a few backstabs

Is it violation or not, after all Spy is supposed to be behind enemy lines...
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Postby NikkyVix » Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:07 pm

Kumagoro wrote:I often wait above the spawn door as spy on 1st stage of Goldrush, allow then to get out and jump behind them to get a few backstabs

Is it violation or not, after all Spy is supposed to be behind enemy lines...


As the rule states, this is allowable on the opening siege only... as it implies, if you come back to their spawn afterwards, you are loitering (camping, waiting, stalking, anticipating, etcetra) about their spawn with intent to kill and thus in violation.

Don't do it.

And to everyone else, just keep in mind: If it's questionable or you're not sure if it's allowed, please just don't do it. Err on the side of caution, so that you don't have to try to explain your intentions later. There's plenty of other ways you can ambush the enemy without resorting to waiting at their spawn in their territory too.
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Postby Ayeaka » Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:23 pm

Kumagoro wrote:I often wait above the spawn door as spy on 1st stage of Goldrush, allow then to get out and jump behind them to get a few backstabs

Is it violation or not, after all Spy is supposed to be behind enemy lines...



This is my favorite spot to wait at the beginning as well; but only at opening, as Nikky said. :)


I have a question for clarification, however.
Is it still permissive to wait above the door REDs come out of on Badwater? It's not their spawn, just a shortcut they can take from spawn until the...third, I believe.. point is captured--and there is another way around, it's just a longer route.
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Postby Witchiebunny » Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:46 pm

Actually Ayeaka, unless you jump the fence or the barrier, you really are kind of barred from taking the alternate route until the second point is taken.
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Postby Ayeaka » Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:49 pm

Witchiebunny wrote:Actually Ayeaka, unless you jump the fence or the barrier, you really are kind of barred from taking the alternate route until the second point is taken.


Well, yes, but it's a low railing, and easy to get over back and forth--I'll refrain from that as well then.
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Postby iller » Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:55 pm

Yeah taking the long way around just b/c there *might* be a Spy sitting above that door (instead of already ATTACKING the snipers just beyond it like they SHOULD be doing) or worse, Demo Stickies on that door, just doesn't make sense.

Despite Tehrashi's comic there, I think "furries" are actually trying to make this more complicated than it really is.
It's "furry Nature" to do that with pretty much everything. Also: Steel needs an Overhaul, It's just full of bad designs and areas that don't make sense or make Steamrolls even Worse than they'd normally be on any other map plus it's way too easy for new folks to get lost on it. Hell I got lost on it a few times last night just b/c I was a little bit tired.
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Postby Kumagoro » Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:54 am

May I ask how spawncamping looks on 3rd Dustbowl stage?

After all BLU's got a lot of free range before hitting the gates
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Postby iller » Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:31 pm

It's not uncommon for Red to pyro-rush blue's own spawn-door (down in the basement) multiple times long after the initial rush was allowed...I once got almost 10 kills down there with a Sentry on our own TFP server. I would have gotten more, but they rushed the Sentry with a second Uber. Apparently some people just don't get the point that a Sentry guarding your Spawn Door with no teleporters anywhere near it means "BACK THE HELL OFF PLZ" ...no, they take it as an invitation to Uber again or plaster the door with stickies and "accidentally" detonate them all right as people walk out it
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Postby Tempest » Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:42 pm

The reason I inquired in particular about sniping on steel, is that some people claim that it is spawncamping even when I cannot see the spawn door or the area in front of it.

Setting no-entry zones as un-guardable is also a very dangerous precedence to set, since that artificially pushes forward the front lines where both sides can work from. For example, one would not be able to defend the second point of gravelpit in the same way one would be allowed to defend the first. These zones are also generally the only place in which most snipers can get enough range to snipe properly until the objective is advanced.

I am against spawn camping because I think it is an abusive way to play the game, but the new definition is only slightly less generic that the old one (the current definition should be inferred from the word 'spawncamp') as such there will probably be almost no change in behavior on the servers (since most people seem to come to the conclusion that if they perceive the other team as spawncamping they will as well because two wrongs make a right etc.)
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