Teamstacking rearing it's head again.....

[miniskunk]

Team stacking is becoming an issue again at the furry pound. I would like to request some civility when it is clear there are several high achieving players on one team. Please balance things out and assist the other team. Steamrolling will happen, but it sucks the joy out of playing TF2 when the same people join the same team over and over or attempt to restack after being balanced to the struggling team. TF2 is at it's most fun when both teams are equally challenged. I understand a lot of steamrolling occurs due to the lack of teamwork, but it only takes 2 or 3 strong players on one team to break attempts at teamwork. Soon things descend into every man for themselves and no one wins when that happens.

This request most likely will fall on deaf ears I imagine, but it needed to be said.

[Mr. Munchlax]

I usually just do auto assign, and I'll sometimes switch to the other team when it's behind on players before the auto balance kicks in.

[Ayeaka]

In the older days when I played ONLY medic, I'd switch whenever it was obvious the enemy team had no competent medics.

Now, however, even if I think I could help the other team, I don't bother.

Why? Sure, I'll RTV or STT, depending on what people want, but otherwise, people just rage-spec over and over to force auto-balance, regardless of it being against the server rules, and half the time I just wind up on my original team, anyway. :/

[NikkyVix]

Nudging this over to the appropriate subforum.

Rants go into the Rants & Raves section.

[Makaze]

I'm inclined to agree with the OP, but my mindset anymore is, what can ya do cept try harder, and deal with the winning team being douches about it? If I'm having fun, despite being raped and having like 3-4 players on the opposing team with trip digit scores(which is the norm now it seems) or if there's one or two stts needed to bring about morale refreshing scramble and the team winning won't even give that courtesy who cares?

<warning, 102 fever and 2:00am might be a bit.....scrambled in thoughts>

I think what makes stacking/steamrolling so bad these days, isn't the "regulars" all grouping together and turning a blind unsportsmanlike eye to the other team, a team that might still be struggling with tactics, and not know each others style as well as say Doom and Lucario playing together. But more the sportsman like conduct some players have, not saying all of us regs are like this, but a worse trend is just the sheer amount of shit talk. Granted with a game like this, or any competitive game some trash talk is expected, just as of late it's been rancid, to the point where admins are muzzling regulars for derogatory statements and just generally being a asshole. well short version Poor winners essentially. the worst of the bunch are the coat tail riders, the guys who are maybe 5-6th on the winning team, and talk enough shit that you'd think they carried the entire team on their mighty shoulders.

I'm not talking like the playful banter and joshing from folks like say Elrabin or Lucario or Trenton. But I mean scathing, mocking shit talk, the type you'd expect a high school bully to resort to. The kind that after a while you go, I came to this server why?

Overall it seems very, very unfriendly and unwelcoming to new folks. Why come to a server seeking friends and fellow furs when all you get is shit talk in voice chat and text. I won't drop names but y'all know who y'all is.

I know some will go, people need to stop being so thin skinned, and that may be true, fuck I've heard it a few times from friends and admins alike, or the vaunted its only a game, mellow.

But a player in a game, be it a digital one or one on the field can only take that kinda shit for so long before a nice heartfelt fuck you is heard, or they take their ball somewhere else so to speak.

Yeah it's online and some will adhere to the get over it, it's only words. blah blah for the lulz bullshit.

I went on a tangent and I'm sorry. I don't think the stack is the problem to be honest. it's annoying, but with a server full of irl friends, online friends and regulars who wanna play with friends, it's going to happen, and sadly ain't shit that can be done about it except hope some mercy from time to time, or someone waking up and going hey maybe these people simply aren't as good as I, or don't play 24/7 or practice like I. So far I've seen maybe 3 people do that, one of them an admin whom I tip my nonexistant hat too. It honestly made all the difference to the team they helped and made the evening more enjoyable(waves to elrabin)

If you're winning and mightily so, do you consciously think, hmm the other team must be frustrated, maybe we should level the playing field and see if we can have a even, decent match see if maybe some skill can be hatched with a little morle boost? Granted that's probably a huge generalization, but most like winning, some too such an extreme that they'll not care if they're crushing people who've been on the game scant hours, so long as they can put another notch in their belt. Or so long as they're with friends fuck the new comers.

And I think thats where the core problem comes in. Most of us probably came here with friends wanting a good time, a welcoming atmosphere and such. And now that some new bad trends are showing I guess that shine of that welcoming atmosphere might be a bit tarnished given what I've mentioned and what others have mentioned. Yes its a game and in the long run, it doesn't affect out outside lives that much. But when someone rolls on the server wanting a bit of fun and to relax and is met with like a 10-0 loss ratio and no light at the end of the tunnel. I can see how that would get frustrating/depressing and maybe just be a pisser on the day.

I guess what I'm saying with this is, yeah stack happens, steam roll happens, but the winning team doesn't need to be such douche chugging shit whistles about it ya know? Whether the opposing team put up a great fight down to the last second, or if they got run over like a kitten on a Texas highway, there is such a thing as winning graciously or maybe not taking the win as such a big thing depending on how easy it was. This is a game of fun, and a little trash talk, playful banter can add to it, maybe spur someone, but when it gets tot he point of team A's members shouting derogatory obscenities and belittling the other team, is it really fun, and are we really showing new people how fun our server is? Or are we showing that we're no better than a something awful or 4chan server? How do you want tfp to be presented in the end is what I ask, admin, regular and new comer alike, seriously how do you want the server to be seen? As a place of fun, merriment, and butt naked furry sprays coated in shimmering digital jism? Or something akin to a post on /b/? How do you want TFP to be seen.

To New folks: Not everyone on the server is a jerk, or out to knife you for a quick kill, to some its still just a game, not a vendetta or a hazing ritual.

To regulars: Not every new person is some new/pubfag out to troll or some furry hater. Or out to just be a total douche, welcome those good newbies with open arms. :3

To All: i like Jamiroquai, and NyQuil and Mountain Dew for the record should NEVER be mixed.(don't ask)


I apologize in advance if this made no sense, or angered some. I've never been the best at expressing a view perfectly, but I try, the name dropping wasn't intentional but I needed good examples to go by.

[Mr. Munchlax]

I'm usually just joking around when I say things and I at least try to make it somewhat obvious that I am, but these days I'm hardly even playing the game for real. You'll usually just find me trying to heavy taunt kill everyone (or punch when the taunt fails and I'm somehow still alive) or playing battle medic regardless of how well/bad my team is doing.

[Makaze]

[NikkyVix]

It does need to be said now and then that people should try to go for sportsmanship instead of the urge to win every single round.

I like to think that one of the reasons people come to our servers is because we've fostered a sort of community feel to it: the regulars, to varying extents and degrees, know each other and are capable of having fun with each other, which breeds friendships. The plus side of this is that friends enjoy playing together. The negative side is that you get certain combinations which do inadvertently stack teams now and then.

Some consideration for when the enemy team is being mauled would be greatly appreciated--I myself try to switch to a less-effective class or hop to the losing team when I see them struggling badly with my team's progress. I don't ask everyone to do this--let's face it, winning is a good feeling. But so is enjoying yourself, win or lose. Let's at least be mindful of when one team's being hopelessly crushed and be open-minded about when it's necessary to spread the talent a bit.

[Purplecat]

There's two things I see where the team loses and it's not because of stacking.

Case 1, Team is unbalanced class wise:
Spies and snipers get's less effective as the more of them you have. So a team with three snipers and three spies won't get anywhere. This is usually related to that some people only almost play one class, and is unable to switch away from it. I admit I tend to be very nazi about this but Team Fortress is kinda designed to reward "balanced" teams.
Case 2, Extreme turtling:
On CTF and cp_well esque maps, it means that in worst case you lose and in the best case it stalemates. So going with a six engineer team is usually a bad idea... especially on CTF where I been able to outsmart crazy sentry defenses as a demoman, spy or even scout if the engineers are clueless enough. Personally I rarely justify using more than three engineers on a team.
Case 3, lack of medics:
Tend to happen on teams where 60% of the team are snipers/spies/engineers. So while I am willing to switch to Medic when i'm willing too, it usually means that there will be one less assault class. I try to urge for one of the special classes to switch (especially of the snipers/spies) but usually the request falls on deaf ears.

I also had games where the attacking team had three or more engineers. You can guess that it usually leads to us being unable to push through the defenses.

I do type STT if I think the skill-level distrubition is out of whack amongst the teams, but I tend to consider the above cases first. We're also planning to retweak STT to require less votes and such, and it probably being advertised in some way. And plus that it won't totally reset the timer of the current map.

[Makaze]

Yeah, that was one thing I sort of forgot, the whole too many of one things does not mean it is a good thing mindset Ailure. yeah while it might be fun to go all Pyro, or all heavy(As Frau, myself and a few others showed) it can and sometimes is a major factor in d-feet x.x though sometimes I've noticed its more of a team either wanting to be goofy, or just not giving a dang, and well being goofy