An Issue I see with TFP TF2

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Postby Dr. Furry » Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:17 am

ugh, i hate it when people just stand arodn doing nothing because they're eatign or soemthing. go spectate, or get off the server and come back later.

that said, i admit to specing when auto balance, but only when , and it usually doe happen, i make a cap on teh point or intel, AND WHAM, AUTOBALANCED, so i have to get that exact mother truckign point back, THAT I JUST STOLE.
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Postby iller » Thu Dec 24, 2009 4:16 am

Witchiebunny wrote:Unfortunately, Euroven the nature of this problem is, as you said, annoying but quick. It's a hard problem to combat.

If there's no admin there who is paying immediate attention, then there's not much we can do. We can yell "Do not spectate after being autobalanced" all we want but in the end, how would we enforce it?

I'm open to suggestions.



I meant to take a stab at this weeks ago but forgot about it in the mad rush of the "WAR" update. Now that teamstacking is back to being just as bad as it ever was, I'm all the more curious why there was no updates since the last time the STT plugin was updated (when the required votes was reduced to something like 45%)? I can't help but notice that the only way the teams are ever balanced is through rage-quits... just the same as last year. I've cast dozens of scramble votes when the difference in player skill is painfully obvious (4 - 0 sweeps on intel maps, 12-1 sweeps on push/PL maps, 6-0 sweeps on CP maps, etc...) and even when the same players all move to the next map and stack up the exact same teams, the STT has never passed. This is different from roughly 6-9 months ago when there was atleast a few STT's passing. It seems rage-quitting is now the only solution being employed which leads to even more of this Autobalancing + Spec'cin'g issue that even a few of the TFP's admins are guilty of.

I did more digging on other servers I've played on where I've seen this issue resolved completely.... Chiefly:
http://www.gametracker.com/server_info/ ... 139:27019/
...which just happens to be run by the Author of:
http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?p=795723
...and I'm not sure if it's the same configurations but I see it was updated today and I notice that whenever a scramble or force-balance (numbers wise) occurred on other servers using something like this, a player might be able to spec but they weren't allowed to rejoin the same team, IoW: something prevented the re-stacking of the Steamrolling team. I know this information has been available to Aillure all this time and I'm assuming he's seen it. Has there ever been any consideration to atleast *test* it on just one of the servers? ...say server #4 for instance and just see how well received it is before insisting it won't work? I notice there's a TON of options in there to exclude the swapping of players meeting certain conditions so I'm wondering what's stopping this from being used yet or atleast *borrowed* a portion of by disabling any of the excess features?



...keep in mind replies were solicited for this, and no new actions Code-side have been hinted at so far...
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iller
 
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Postby Sekh765 » Thu Dec 24, 2009 6:36 am

This plugin is pretty awesome. I will definently look into it more indepth, as it does what we were already looking into to change our STT methods (mainly, getting it to pop a RTV style menu up), but also helps us protect people like Engi's, and seems like it might have more math behind its balance script. I'll get back to ya on this. Feel free to pm me on steam.
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Postby SilverWolf » Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:43 am

I have that plugin, quite fun when someone tries to switch back and their name simply shows up in color on the chat "<player> tried to re-stack the teams, FOR SHAME!"

reminds me now that I have to edit the config on that thing, since I don't have the scrambler voting on my server yet :oops:
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Postby miniskunk » Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:01 pm

Now that the plugin is in use I have to say it isn't really helping promote enjoyment of the game.

Since it does make it easier to scramble the teams, I am now seeing a scramble take place after nearly every round initiated by the losing team. There is no chance to build up teamwork if people keep taking the easy way out. Many times I have played on either side to see things balance themselves out on the losing side as the new teams adjust their strategy and make better use of the each players skill by the second or third round. I would like to propose not allowing a scramble unless once side has been trounced at least twice.

As the scrambles take place more often, it is now not a given you will be able to play both offense and defense on a capture point or cart map. Personally I love to play both sides as it changes the game play up and reduces monotony. Many times both teams may suck for instance at defending and if allowed to play out without scrambling at the end of a round both sides playing as offense would win both rounds. I would add to my proposal to not allow a scramble until both red and blue have played through a full round of both offense and defense.

I have also noticed scores are not being reset when a scramble takes place. All the hard work I do for my team ends up being handed over when I get switched. The team scoring system is a measurement of a teams overall skill and is part of the payoff. I propose resetting the score if a scramble takes place as it did before. I know this resets the game timer as well. This should create a deterrent to the constant scrambling that is occurring.

I know there is no perfect solution to deal with stacking teams, but if the plugin can be adjusted to not allow scramble to happen so frequently I think this would go a long way toward finding the balance needed.
Last edited by miniskunk on Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Sekh765 » Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:14 pm

It should only be prompting a vote after certain criteria are met at which point people can vote on if they want a scramble or not. After that it SHOULD block the ability to scramble for at least 2 - 3 more rounds before preforming another check for imbalance. I'll look into it again.
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Postby miniskunk » Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:47 pm

deleted
Last edited by miniskunk on Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby miniskunk » Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:51 pm

Sekh765 wrote:It should only be prompting a vote after certain criteria are met at which point people can vote on if they want a scramble or not. After that it SHOULD block the ability to scramble for at least 2 - 3 more rounds before preforming another check for imbalance. I'll look into it again.


Yeah I was seeing this happen more than one round in a row where a scramble was done or at least being voted on.
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Postby Jinx » Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:12 pm

miniskunk wrote:Yeah I was seeing this happen more than one round in a row where a scramble was done or at least being voted on.


If the vote succeeds it'll block a scramble from occurring for at least one more round after that. If a vote fails then it will continue to poll every round it notices a major imbalance.
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Postby miniskunk » Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:00 pm

Ok I was mistaking that aspect of the plugin with players trying to scramble the teams. It is nice that it automatically asks, but it happens so often in some games that it is almost like spam. If we said no why does it ask again a few mins later?
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