Spawn camping

[Witchiebunny]

The reason why the spawncamping rules are as strict as they are is because when they were more fluid, instances of spawncamping were not only more widespread, but much more *blatant* and the punishment for spawncamping would vary from admin to admin, with admins bickering in the same game about whether or not a punishment should be handed out over one incident or another.

It got to the point where a rock solid rule HAD to be made or the entire thing abandoned, and I'm sorry but one of the core rules of TFP is, and always has been, no spawncamping.

We were actually asked BY a good chunk of the community TO make a solid rule on it so that there would be no more bickering in game about semantics-either it is or it isn't. And there's still a good bunch of bickering about it, I know, but not nearly as much as there once was, believe me.

In short....not to shoot you down, but the rule likely isn't changing. It came to be after a little over a year of discussion and arguments both among the community and admins, and controversial as it is, it's the best we can do without doing away with some core components of the game in one direction (no shooting at spawn AT ALL) or letting total chaos reign and possibly some very unsportsmanlike and unfair practices abound.

I'm curious, since you bring up the point....how would you phrase the rule differently or how would you fix the issues you present? If you think the rule ought not to be as strict, what would you change?

(In other words, if you're going to complain the rule isn't fair, what solutions do you propose for us to enact?)

[Purplecat]

The only alternative would be to remove the spawncamping rule, and that is out of the question (so don't even try to push for it).

As Witchiebunny said, it used to be more complicated but semantics was being argued way more. And if you made it even simpler (aka just "No spawncamping"), it would unfortunately break the design of some stock maps (cp_dustbowl comes to mind), and people would argue what is considered spawncamping. Of course, ignoring that... for it to be spawncamping, it actually need to involve... camping.

[Funshade]

[Sekh765]

[kodani]

[Zareth]

[Funshade]

[Witchiebunny]

Okay funshade.

Imagine you are the head admin of a group of about 2000 people, with perhaps more than that visiting the servers on a daily basis.

Imagine you are in game to play, NOT to enforce rules.

Imagine you have to remember EVERY SINGLE ONE of those rules, and their circumstances, at all times, and stop your play to be an admin.

Imagine that you have to argue with those who don't see why you're telling them what they're doing is against the rules every time you do your job as an admin.

....Do you see why the rules you've created just....aren't viable? For one, they really aren't clear and they are difficult to understand as written. That aside, #7 invalidates them all, and that's really just no good. It needs to be a hard and fast rule, clear as a bell, and one that takes into account EVERY map instead of allowing for the rules to be thrown out because a map is different. A rule like this is really begging for trouble and grief and headaches, and I tend to lose more admins that way.

[Funshade]

Persoanly. i would do away with admins. compleatly. Install a votekick with the need of 65% vote needed. and give a handful of people admin rights. The Community will speek to what it wants and doesnt want. and no one has to go to an admin for it.

Edit: Make it a 10 minute ban and call it a kick.

[Sekh765]

O_O.

That system doesn't work on the servers that DO have it, let alone a community of furries that exceeds 2k players. I know a good number of players would get kicked because they are "too good" and piss off the servers by dominating people one after another. Most people just hit 1 when a vote comes up, regardless of what it is. Map vote, kick vote, whatever, 1 1 1 1 1 1. I know this is true because when I prompt map type votes for a server sometimes I stick CTF as 1 and it still wins, then the whole server is like, "wait, I didn't know ctf was 1, I want to change my vote".

Again. This is reminiscent of an earlier argument. Our rules are fine for the majority of our players. If you can't get your points playing the game we wish it to be played, then that is unfortunate. Most of your argument seems to stem (at least what I have read in almost all your posts), from either sentry camping doors to "get extra points", or sticky spamming. Neither of these are allowed because they create a pissy negative atmosphere that we don't want around, as well as detract from the fun of our servers.

I don't know where your getting your information, but your interpretation of our rules seems incorrect and flawed. You are thinking too far into the letters and not into the spirit of the rules. You mention something about "uber charges" not being allowed. I and my friends charge peoples spawns while uber charged all the time, as long as I leave after the uber is over no one has a problem with it. A spy "spawn camping" outside the door is virtually impossible, as to get behind a player they should be well beyond their door by the time he stabs them, and any competent players can usually avoid/catch the spy afterward.

In closing. The community HAS spoken. I am not sure how long you have been here, but as Witchie has already mentioned. Twice. People asked for the rules, we created them, and people now abide by and enjoy the game without having to argue as much. The communit ASKED for more admins, which it got and we are doing just fine as a result. I do not believe you are as in touch with the "common player" as you believe you are.