Why come into the TF2 servers unless you intend to play?

[miniskunk]

I have a serious question here and want a frank open and respectful discussion about it.

Am I wrong to expect that when going into our servers to play TF2 that people are there to play it the way it was intended and not to be chewed out for doing so?

Just this night I was just playing on server one and one side decided to start screwing around. I did not pickup on this immediately because there did not seem to be a clear and concise consensus on the matter. There was just too much of the normal confusion going around for me to notice right away.

Next thing I know one of the players who is a regular starts going off on me and cussing me out because I was still playing TF2 in a normal matter.

I don't set out to grief or annoy others players because I like to have fun but not at others expense. Screwing around on occasion is fine, but I don't appreciate being told off and made felt unwelcome on our game servers for expecting gameplay to continue normally.

I know this issue has two sides and have seen legitimate complaints from the other side. I feel we need to set server policy as to what server non-normal game play is allowed so these conflicts do not occur in the future. I felt like the server I was playing on was hijacked in the middle of normal game play and was not being used for it's intended purpose. As far as I am concerned this was a form of griefing on their part yet I was made to feel I was the badguy for being too slow on the uptake. My feeling on this matter is if you want to screw around, don't dictate how things are going to be on our public servers. If you aren't getting a consensus, take it to your own private server or find an empty server so you are not disrupting normal game play.

Thoughts?

[Stormcaller3801]

I've dealt with the same problem on the other side of the coin- something that seems to be a lot more common in my experience. Last night was an excellent source of examples of this. To begin with I joined a server, #7 I think it was, where everyone was on CP_Bedroom. There was a general consensus to screw around, and we were doing so- specifically we were using the map's huge skybox to launch Bonk!ed Scouts across the map, unharmed, via stickies. There was no misunderstanding as to what we were doing, or why- alltalk was on, we had RED and BLU dispensers next to one another, teleporters set up in obvious locations, and obvious coordination. Then a couple of players, Black Adam being the most conspicuous, who started sapping, sniping, and generally destroying anything he could.

Later on, there was another server where a small group of people were attempting to get Achievements. I went there and tried to assist with this. After a map change we had a guy, Jim, show up as Pyro and start killing everyone. This despite repeated, loud statements about what we were trying to do. By the time I decided chat was itself a waste of time, I'd AFK'd out of the game. Going back in the game had switched to all melee. I left.

A third game on another server was again simply attempts to get Achievements. I occupied myself with trying to perform a trick with the Sandman. People asked for an Engie, I switched over and set up a Dispenser as asked. I got backstabbed and sapped for no reason. I rebuilt, but apparently they gave up on that achievement ($500,000 Man or something), so I just wandered around building stuff. Disturbed blew it up, declaring where I built it to be 'his' building. So I went to another building. Where he then headshotted me twice. His reason? He just felt like it.

Fourth game, back to #7, Sawmill and achievement farming again. I attempted to set up a Dispenser for people. Another Engie specifically set up a Sentry to shoot my stuff. This repeated several times until he quit. People were again trying to do Scout missiles. Map changed to Frontier. Melee only. I decided to just sit on the cart and eat a Sandvich. It was declared, loudly, that Sandvich-eating Heavies were off-limit (by other people). I still got shot, burned, and stabbed repeatedly. We switched sides, and on RED, I did the same, but atop Lil' Chew Chew, not impeding movement or affecting anyone. Still, I was repeatedly set on fire, blown up, and stabbed. Game switched to 100 Yards, and by that point there was a loud argument going on between two people. Rules were melee only, and alltalk was on. Everyone save one guy, Hypersomething Pumpernickel, went along with it. I publicly stated I was going to play with the prop_physics cans in the stands. I got Sniped repeatedly by Pumpernickel. Things more or less broke down, and I was repeatedly shot by IAMaNarc, who was an Ambassador Spy and was told several times the rules. That continued more or less to the end, although everyone else respected the fact I was occupying myself with other things.

I don't think there's any question that the 'Don't be a Dick' rule applies on both sides of the coin- people should be polite about the rules, and should respect what everyone agrees to. If there's confusion, then there's confusion, and it should be dealt with. But I'd also suggest consideration for both sides of the coin, and respecting that sometimes, people just want to goof off for a while.

[NikkyVix]

The problem is thus: We as people are not mind-readers capable of instant understanding. And often times, people on either side of this argument are pretty oblivious. But because we are not mind-readers doesn't mean some people don't get upset at others for not instantly knowing what's going on and towing the line. It can be unfair expectation and can be avoided with a little information up front, but the nature of many gamers is fickle when it comes to communication and acquiescence to the majority's wishes..

The decision to fool around is often done on the moment, and new entrants to the server that is engaging in non-serious play can be oblivious to that. In their ignorance, they will assume the way they want to play is correct until told--or forced to observe--otherwise. It's just inevitable, and another natural example of TF2 play.

Some catch on and decide to play along; Some catch on and decide to go against the flow. Others don't catch on at all. In all three cases, just informing new entrants who show signs of doing otherwise than the majority wants is usually necessary, in addition to the observation that if someone wishes to play normal or seriously, there are other servers that they can go to.

You would be right in assuming that our rule against being a douche also applies when people just want to fool around and someone is ruining their plans to do so, because it is still going against the wishes of the majority on the server, said wish being to fool around and have fun. It's not necessary to be angry at anyone who doesn't immediately get the intentions of the majority (even if it's annoying when blatantly obvious signs of serious/non-serious play are in evidence). But it can be irksome if they continue to play as they wish and troll the other players.

There are many ways to play TF2. We just ask people to be courteous and observant about how they wish to play it and what their fellow players are doing, so that it doesn't ruin the experience for others. It doesn't seem like we seek too much with that, because we do have a good number of players who share our views and just want a fun, challenging, and entertaining place to play with their friends and meet new folk. The pursuit of that is something we will enforce when we see people trying to ruin it for others.

And on that note, Stormcaller: If you will, please contact me in PMs concerning the issue you related in your post about the disruptions during the game? I'd like to hear any more if you're inclined to share.

[kaikashira]

I guarantee ya you weren't on 7, I know every map i put on there - cp_bedroom ain't one of em. You were most likely on #3, the other fun server - frontier just got added to server 7 two days ago.

I'm aware of when folks don't know about the rules of said game modes when they join, thus each time they join a team I do an hsay so that it flashes neon text at the bottom as well as a vocal confirmation and a text confirmation of what is going on.

Personally, I only run into trouble when someone decides to be an asshat and go against the majority of folks - most of which wonder why THEY'RE being killed as they're doing nothing. To which, I remind them again what mode we're currently in. Usually about this time people cheerfully apologize, leave the server with grace or decide to be a troll. One of the three.

With trolls, we usually just slay/silence them every time they mess with the other 'patrons' of the server that are abiding by the agreed-upon rules. Usually they leave of their own accord, sometimes they turn abusive and that's when we do the whole warn/kick phase.

If I have ever miscommunicated on 7, I apologize in advance and retroactively. I'm usually very good about conveying what's going on.
~Kai

[Stormcaller3801]

I was switching back and forth between 7 and I think 3; I may have spent time on 5 as well. I know there were two servers running Lighthouse simultaneously; the incident with Jim was on that map, and then I switched over. I think all of the maps involved were Koth_Lighthouse, Koth_Sawmill, CP_Bedroom, PL_Frontier, and CTF_100Yards. There might have been others but those are the ones that stick out in my mind.

Edit: I remember playing on Dreadnought as well, but nothing noteworthy happened there.

[Purplecat]

To be honest, people who spend most of the time in TF2 screwing around probably bought the wrong game...

While I can understand that a whole team decides to screw off for a moment, it kinda peeves me off when someone randomly spycrabs their way through the game, or think that going melee only heavy is really really funny. Especially when it's the kind of match where everyone is trying their best. Fine to screw around if everyone is in agreement, but otherwise... play the damn game.

[Stormcaller3801]

See, I'll do that now and again, but I'm also willing to listen to my teammates. I'll announce if I'm going to screw around, especially if it's a way that would violate agreed-upon rules (such as sniping prop_physics objects while everyone else is going melee only), and if there's objections voiced, I'll either join the majority or find a different server. Same thing if I'm trying really hard to cap the point or defend the intel or whatever and the rest of the team/server responds to my (admittedly frustrated) cries for help by telling me they're just screwing around. I'll stop playing serious or find another server.

The only time I have a problem with it is when it's one or two people who are being a dick. Which includes those times when the rest of the server is happy to let me goof around, but that one guy goes out of their way to harass me.

[FlareKitsune]

Oh I'd love to.

But yanno. The constant harassing about the way I play is not good. I think it was TFP #1 I was on? Anyway. It was KOTH Nucleus, and I was Sniper. Now, whenever I play that map, I'm in the spawn. It's a great tactic and a good way of not having a huge negative KDR.

And then the fun starts. Cause I was having some trouble getting shots off cause the other team is jumping around.

"What about that Sniper? He should leave the spawn and be credit to team."

"...Or that Sniper in the spawn. Oh he's a real pro!"

..Which basically got so bad I had to mute everyone. Eventually I ended up leaving and going to Lotusclan #1, cause at least the people on there aren't asshats about the way you play.

If this is how your players treat other players, then you shouldn't have servers on the game.

[Ayeaka]

Flare, we do...discourage sniping from spawn, sans map starts where it's the only good vantage point.

(Or at least, we did.)

If you're in spawn, that only encourages the enemy team to come TO your spawn, and typically causes spawn camping...

[FlareKitsune]

Did you have to be an ass about it?

How bout you let me play the way I want to. Do you see me harass and troll about the way you play? No? Then don't do the same.