Some Days, I Hate These Servers.

[Stormcaller3801]

There's no point to just offering up another analogy.

The argument that's being made is that in 100% of the cases where someone is behaving unacceptably, someone would go get an admin.

My counterargument is that I have watched people quit servers, complain constantly, and state outright that they're giving up what they were trying to do because someone's disrupting things to the point that they couldn't do it- but nobody went to get an admin.

The response is that this must not have been unacceptable behavior, because nobody went to get an admin.

There's no point to arguing this now. Any examples I give to the contrary are immediately dismissed. Either it was bad behavior and someone went to get an admin, or someone didn't go get an admin, so it must not have been bad behavior. It's circular logic.

You are assuming that people will respond a certain way, every single time. I'm telling you that's not so- and it's the same thinking that got this whole thing started.

People are not going to instantly know admin are around. They aren't going to get some sort of telepathic signal that someone on their team has started a demo. They're not going to spontaneously narrate everything that's been going on for the last twenty minutes, any more than people randomly start into exposition in the middle of a discussion, explaining everything that's been said and done up to that point. There needs to be a trigger, something as simple as an admin asking, publicly, what's going on.

Do you know what happened a few nights back, when Niko was on? We had someone on my team start micspamming. Nobody on my team said a word. Right up until I asked Niko to do something about the guy. The moment he asked what the problem was, then people spoke up and started complaining about it.

Was it new? No. Were they complaining about it prior to Niko asking, even though Niko (and these other players) had been playing before I said anything? No. It wasn't until Niko specifically asked that people volunteered information about what the guy was doing. Alltalk had been off to that point. There was no way for Niko to know. That doesn't mean people were happy with the situation, and they were quite willing to express their feelings once they were asked to do so.

[Ayeaka]

...finally coming out of lurking. This may well be my last post for a while. Hell if I know.


I don't agree with everything being said--on EITHER side.

However, I can certainly agree with part of what Storm is saying.

LARGELY, despite being VERY upset at their fun being disrupted, most players WILL NOT DO ANYTHING. It does not, however, mean that they are not UPSET. It does NOT mean that a problem did not occur, and it does NOT mean that they were not bothered by it.
Ask people in front of the ADMINS what kind of job the admins are doing, and said admins will be ASSKISSED. It's how power works, and it's the SAME response I received on the server I admined, as well as any of the forums I've had mod powers on in the past.
Most players will get angry, and attempt to solve things on their own. Failing that, there may be threats of getting an admin--these are hollow.
As a psychological example, consider the bystander effect. The more people present at the scene of a crime or accident, the less likely any one of them is to report it or do anything to assist the afflicted; the more people present, the more likely they are to assume that someone else will handle it.

As for demos? I've sent in a few. It's hard to get anything conclusive. Usually I have a demo running 24/7, because the sad truth is, that's what it takes to catch anything. If you wait FOR a problem, then by the time you hit your hotkey, all you're going to capture is a lot of angry shouting that doesn't prove anything.

And as for the community's opinion at large? I can only speak for those on my own friends list. That's a bit over 200 out of 2000...However, I have been told, time and time again, "why bother getting a demo? It's not going to do anything."
I've defended the admins on countless occasions--I've encouraged others to get demos, and as for whether or not anything's actually happening?
I can't say. The community as a whole is too bloated and overbearing to see if ANY sort of change is actually happening--so I will make no attempt to speak there.

But I will say this; if someone comes to you about a problem, consider it a MIRACLE. Most players will simply ragequit, never contact anyone about the problem, and continue to rage about what happened, (and blame the servers and admins, despite NOT contacting them!) from that point onward.

[unseen]

[Stormcaller3801]

[Owashii]

[unseen]

[Stormcaller3801]

[Witchiebunny]

...you know what, I'm done.

[unseen]

[Owashii]