Spawncamp? Oh please...

[Kumagoro]

Quit overusing that word. I often run to the enemy spawn as Scout (or any other class, though most often as scout) to get their teleport entrance.

Well sometimes I manage to bump into someone who barely spawned, despite focusing on the teleporter I'm pretty much forced to shoot him to survive. Sometimes I get a crit which kills him instantly, and what does he do? "Durr sure is spawncamp around here"


Not to mention, 90% of TF2 maps are designed in a way that makes the so-called spawncamping impossible (I'm looking at Goldrush and Badlands mostly at the moment)

[Stormcaller3801]

Eh. I'm of two minds on this. I'm of two minds on a lot of things, though.

On the one hand, yes- particularly of late I've noticed that there's a lot of bitter complaints about how people are playing that don't hold up. Last night it was people complaining how my team was 'going Demo spam' and arguing that was letting us win every round. Did we have a lot of Demomen? I don't know. A number of people were switching classes. I know at certain points we had three out of a team of sixteen. At another point there was five. At other points there were two. At the same time we were trying to push the cart past four or more Sentry Guns at a given choke point. I think the final point in Gold Rush was being guarded by at least three Snipers, two Pyros, and four Sentries.

Another example was the end of a round when someone quit on the other team. Someone on my team said "Ragequit much?" There was no reason for it, no evidence of it. People complain about spawncamping, spamming, and more, regardless of evidence. It annoys me to no end because it isn't anything more than people getting upset about the way the game is going.

At the same time, yeah- I've seen Pyros that will rush the attackers' Spawnpoint on the second stage of Gold Rush and make several passes back and forth, and see the spawn door go up and they're right next to the edge of it, so they were either waiting to get people as they ran out, or just happened to be hugging the wall and running past at exactly the right moment. I've been backstabbed by Spies in the same spot just outside Spawn as a Soldier, running to the final point. I've been in games where my team is losing, and suddenly the other team gains several new people while the ranks of Spectators thins out.

The problem seems to exist on both sides of the equation- the assumptions that anything going wrongly must be due to the other side not playing fair, whatever that may mean, and the people who really are being asshats. I don't think it's cut and dried enough that it's worth pointing fingers save at very specific people in very specific situations, that break the rules of the server. If that's not happening, someone on one side or the other needs to remember that it's just a game.

[Sekh765]

People complain all the time, its unfortunately part of the game/players we play with. Theres always gonna be pissed off wanting to blame their failure on something else.

HOWEVER

The problem I have been recently seeing is people not understanding "spawncamping" and our RULES on spawncamping. I particularly enjoyed the guy last night who built a sentry directly over our spawn in Cranetop (Point 2, on the box directly outside the spawn anteroom), who thought it would be cute to say it wasn't spawn camping because their was multiple exits to the room. Obviously this is not how our rules work, but new people don't take the time to read them, causing more people to get angry, resulting in more complaining, which causes the other team to grief more, etc. Its a cycle of sorts and it usually only stops with the next map.

Theres always going to be complaints of spawncamping by people who die as they leave the spawn door. Even if its in no way camping, it could simply be (as I do many times), a single 10 second uber charge to push the enemy team back. I always yell at my heavy/pyro to start running when theres about 2 seconds left on the uber so that we don't end up camping them, but people like to scream "CAMPER!" if they die even a single time.

Anyways. I guess the point of that is people need to read the rules, which will probably not happen until they get a temp boot from the servers for being asses. Which is unfortunate.

[Stormcaller3801]

I've noticed that there's also a couple other admin options used on TF2Maps.net's servers- most notably the option to smack someone, and the ability to have them detonate after a countdown timer expires. I would imagine these, particularly the latter, could get the idea across.

[Wulfie]

[Sekh765]

[CrashFu]

One time a corrupt and vile admin on a very different furry server network slapped some kind of ultimate admin super-mute on me that even prevented calling for medic.

I screamed something into my mic, then single-handedly went and slaughtered him and every one of his friends using the Pyro (and this was back in the days that the flamethrower sucked) and then I ragequit harder than I've ever ragequit before.

Of course, he muted me for catching one of his friends in the act of aimbotting and confronting him about it, not for breaking server rules. Still, my point is... no matter how amusing an admin power you have, using it is isn't going to inspire a person to behave.

[Stormcaller3801]

I was thinking more in terms of 'okay, time to leave the spawn area, you have ten seconds to comply...' and then disabling the detonation if they do so. Regardless of team. I suppose that would require more of a spectator-admin than a player admin though. I think it'd work if applied universally. It'd only take 10 seconds to hit the cabinet, sap a teleporter, or kill a person, then get outta dodge.

But that brings up other problems as well, such as needing admin around and constantly activating the effect.

[Ayeaka]

If I die once at spawn, I usually grumble, assume they were going for teleporters, and wait for respawn.

If I die twice to the same person, I start asking my team if they're also dying at spawn.

If the answer is yes, I WILL complain, and have every right to in that situation, as far as I'm concerned, as that likely means that a player on the enemy team is repeatedly going to, and trying to camp our spawn, regardless of how successful they are.

Now, if it's a spy, I startle him, and get a critvolver, I'm more lenient... but I'm a bit soft on spies, I'll admit.
(Though facestabs make me RAEGGGGGGGGG. Er, depending on who does it. If it's a friend/someone I know is laggy, I might 'poke' at them, but I mean it in jest. If it's someone with a supposedly low ping repeatedly walking up to my face and insta-killing me, then I get a bit pissed. We've had a LOT of players hiding their real ping, lately...)

xD And yes Sehk, that goes for you. When i'm all HUR DUHR NICE FAECSTAB I'm not angry. xD I get enough myself to have no room to talk.

[Lost]

Well I never have called what happens in TF2 spawn camping more of door camping, since the enemy can't kill you as you spawn. Play games like Cod4 and UT where a player can kill you before you even have a chance to release hes there (fuck the air strikes in COD4). Then most of the time a spawn area have multiple ways of leaving so you can avoid these traps, but players just keep running out the same door and bitch about getting killed while i have left out the other door and have come around kill the guy by the time he tries for his forth suicide attempt . I really try to avoid killing at the spawn door i find it apart of good sportsmanship, except when i try to get Sandman Taunt kills cause those are just funnier then hell, but there are times when trying to kill tellies an enemy comes and I have to defend myself. So long as there are guns and spawns there will a player bitching about spawn camping.