What is and is not fun.

[Stormcaller3801]

The other night I was trying to play all nine classes. This wasn't terribly difficult- I just wanted to get the achievement and maybe find out if there were some classes I did enjoy more than others. All of this was on the 'Fun' server. It seemed like a safe bet. After all, it's just for fun right?

It wasn't just for fun. There was constant, unending harassment on channel. Not namecalling, not yelling at anyone specifically, just certain individuals, whose names I do not know, who were constantly haranguing the team because we were not playing how they wanted us to play. We weren't playing the right classes. We weren't fighting the right way. We weren't in the right places. We weren't going to the right spots. Which is not to say that we were off in a corner doublejumping and bonking each other on the head. We were playing as a group, attempting to take the point. It just was not working.

When the map switched, I got kicked because I didn't have the new custom map. Which just about killed things for me because at that point it was insult to injury. I was not having fun. I was being killed off regularly. I was trying my best to fight as a useful member of the team. And I was getting yelled at constantly because I was not doing it 'the right way.' When I went into that map, it was no better. It was Dreadnought, and there was constant yelling and complaining, both at teammates and at the other side. Why? They had several Snipers. I was a Medic. I was trying to help. I was dying constantly and only rarely saw anyone else on my team.

Then the map flipped to 100 Yards. I don't know if those individuals simply were on the other side (there was complaints at the end of every round about how it was unfair, so that may have happened), but I went back to trying to play all 9 classes. I played a Sniper. I had a good time. I tried to be useful. I didn't have anyone harassing me about not helping or not doing things correctly. I saw another teammate playing a Sniper, and I passed on some information I'd picked up from TF2wiki, trying to be friendly and give some useful tips. Hopefully that didn't come across as criticizing, because it wasn't meant to. But I did have fun.

Tonight, I logged in again, hoping to have fun again. I did not. There was constant chatter, and it was constant complaints. I still had 2 classes to go that for some reason would not count as a completed round, and I don't know which ones. We played Dustbowl and I was a Medic. There were constant complaints about people playing certain classes or not doing things. We lost, about half the time. Some of the time it was good chatter, other times it wasn't.

We went to Pipeline. I swapped to Spy. I'm not good at Spy, I know this. But with the least amount of time playing on it I figured it was a decent shot. There was constant complaints about too many Spies, and too many Snipers. While we tried to defend against the other team there was constant yelling on chat about how we weren't getting out cart moving. When I tried to help out with that, I died quickly and ineffectively, and the complaints continued non-stop. I was doing my best to be useful. I eventually switched to Medic trying to help out. We still died. Repeatedly. And we lost.

Finally we went to Badwater Basin. And while trying to defend, there was the straw that broke the camel's back. I was there and trying to keep people healed. I was trying to keep my eyes for people who needed help. I was using the Medigun when I could, and when people seemed healthy or dead, I tried to help defend with the Blutsauger. And when we got close to the end, after about the fourth or fifth time of being blown up while rushing around the final point, trying to heal people, someone said it.

"If we actually had a real Medic on the team..."

I suck. I know I suck. I make a point of saying so in order to make sure there's no illusions about me being some sort of uber l33t TF2 player. But after the complaints about how it wasn't fair, how we weren't playing right, how people should go play the 'correct' classes, how the other team was ruining things, that just basically did it. I wasn't up for dealing with anything more. I wasn't having fun. I was playing mostly because I hate leaving in the middle of a match- it feels like I'm abandoning my teammates and forcing them to fight with less people than the other guys, making them lose because I can't tough things out. But I did. And I felt bad doing so because I knew it wasn't the entire team, just the people who were continually complaining.

But that's not fun. And it ultimately makes me wonder if I should keep playing- on the members server, on the 'fun' server, or at all.

[Ayeaka]

THIS.

I encounter this ALL THE TIME. Whether I'm being effective or not, no matter what class I'm playing, usually someone starts complaining about me, on the fun server, as well as the other servers.

You have ANY idea how often I get "oh my god, I can't believe I got killed by FRAU.." ? Ugh.. I'm an...intermediate player. Some nights I'm a decent spy, and I'm usually a good scout, heavy, and medic, when I can focus and react properly.

I suck at demoman, and Oh God, I can't play sniper to save my ass.

But there's always so much complaining.. so many demands. No matter what you're doing it's WRONG, OMG, IT'S WRONG.

And when you ARE having fun, the enemy team ruins it pretty quick by whining. OH TEAMS ARE STACKED. OH NOW YOU'RE MAKING FUN OF US. OH GOD. OH NO. OH THIS. OH THAT.

I can tell you RIGHT NOW that having an entire team of skilled players means NOTHING if they aren't working together. Skilled chaos is still just chaos. And it gets a team NO WHERE. If a team is winning, it's because they're WORKING TOGETHER.
Not because they're spending all their time complaining, not because they're tearing their teammates down.

Everyone seems to ahve a mindset of "well, if THIS was different, -I- would be so much better, omg."

Sometimes you just have a bad day. Your team isn't ALWAYS losing because of the other team's players.
Friends like to play together, and I've seen all of the so-called 'teamstack' players lose JUST as much as I've seen them win.

But know what? When people shut the fuck up, and just STOP BITCHING, I usually have just as much fun LOSING as I do winning. It's a GAME. You're supposed to be playing it to HAVE FUN. Having FUN does not require WINNING. Sure, we lost, but I took out lots of people on a wrench rampage.

Sure, I died, but the demoman managed to wedge my corpse into the ceiling--that was pretty funny.

Sure, I got lit up by that pyro, and sure it was frustrating when my cloak fritz'd, and just started uncloaking and recloaking me, but I popped a helluva lot of people with the revolver.

Etcetc.

[NikkyVix]

[Pitchblack]

What really gets my gall, is that a lot of the time those same people who are complaining about 'team-stacking' and the like, are the superfluous 5th Sniper that the team DOES NOT NEED, and yet they refuse to go and play a class that might actually help us win. And so when the demo comes in and gibs them or the pyro sends them running, covered in falmes, it's nobody fault but their own.

Of course, these people are never, EVER going to believe that THEY can do anything wrong.

When it's the soldier telling the rest of his team that they really need a medic, that's understandable. But when it's the 5th sniper raging at the rest of the team that they need to defend...

Grrrrrrrrrrr.

[Ayeaka]

[Arcalane]

[Stormcaller3801]

Wacky is more or less what I meant- or at the very least there is correlation, if not causation. Other servers it seems as if there's much more aggressive play- people attempting to win and ignoring the possibility of any other objectives. On the fun server and to a lesser extent the members server, I've experienced more games where people will spontaneously come up with odd rules or limiters, such as an all Engineer game where Sentries are limited to level 1 and cannot be repaired. Or just a general relaxed atmosphere where people are joking, cracking wise, and winning or losing on the map without that being the subject of intense focus and constant complaints.

And honestly it's not even the complaining about team stacking. That was happening this most recent time, but it was just one more log on the fire, one more complaint on top of all the rest. We're in the wrong because we're not playing the right classes. We're in the wrong because we're not pushing our cart. We're in the wrong because we're not keeping the other team off their cart. We're in the wrong because we don't have Sentries. We're in the wrong because we have too many Engineers. We're in the wrong because we're not pushing forward. We're in the wrong because we're all up there when the enemy's gotten behind us. We're in the wrong because we can't take down that Sentry. We're in the wrong because we Ubered a Demoman to take down the Sentry. So and so has logged on and is playing a Demoman, or a Spy, or a Scout, or a Heavy, or a Sniper, and that's simply not fair because they're too good at it. This map sucks because the person complaining isn't familiar with it yet. This map sucks because other people are. This game sucks because I have to keep holding down 'V' to constantly inform all of you of how much everything else sucks.

It's not fun, or even wacky, there's no casual dialogue or people just having fun. It's a constant running stream of complaints, criticisms, and demands with the odd insult thrown in.

[Sekh765]

Still, sometimes theres legit reason for teamstacking complaints, usually unintentionally by the other team when its a large group of friends, though I do find it totally unforgiveable when someone sits in spec after getting teamswitched to get back to their friends. If you get auoswitched, at least play for the team your on while you wait for a spot to open up, don't be a waste of server space being an ass in spec.

Anyways, these are nice responses to your problem. You could always go with my method. Play what you want and tell anyone who says otherwise to FOAD. That usually shuts them up. Eventually when your good at the game you can ammend that with, "I'm also at the top of my class, please stop talking."

But thats just me >_>, I have a habit of totally ignoring the whiners on my team and playing what I want to play to have fun.

[Stormcaller3801]

I have trouble ignoring people mostly because of the voice chat option- I can (and often do, whether I mean to or not) ignore the text chat, as well as anything in that corner of the HUD. But as I said, this tends to be more or less constant. One of them was even complaining about how the game needed an 'always talk' option because it was too much of a pain to keep the 'V' key pressed. In retrospect I find that bitterly humorous, both because of the fact the complaints had been pretty well constant for the last four maps of Pipeline and roughly four maps of Dustbowl, and because I never thought I'd be singing the praises of a game developer for leaving out a common game option.

[Makaze]